It's been known as "The Chinese camera", the
"Unicolor camera", "that camera I saw at NSA",
"the vaporware camera". It is actually marked
as a "TL120-1"

I've been waiting since '03 for this camera
and have finally gotten my hands on one.
Considering what I paid for it and that I have
signed no NDAs I have taken pictures of it and
posted them at:
http://stereo.thurstons.us/mf_cameras.htm

These pages are still in progress. I don't yet
have my first roll of film back from A&I so I
can't post samples :(

If you see egregious errors on the pages, please
let me know off-list and I'll do my best to
correct them.

If you have questions that you think I may be
able to answer, ask away.

I'll post this information over on photo-3d as
well, but I thought I should give the die-hard
MF3D'ers first crack at my bandwidth.
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

Hi John!

Thanks for the great review of the 3D World TL120-1 - well done!   Your comments regarding the poor ergonomics are disappointing, but I appreciate your observations.   I also like the artwork you did suggesting modifications to either the height of the shutter speed dial or the shape and position of the advance lever.

I'm really looking forward to your evaluation of the image quality (especially at f/8, on a tripod, with a fairly flat subject - so that DoF and diffraction aren't an issue).    I'm also curious about how well it can sync moving subjects at 1/500th. 

Well, I'd better leave it at that, or you'll have to send me a bill for your services.  :-)

Thanks again for sharing your findings!

Mike Davis

At 08:52 PM 9/11/2006, you wrote:

http://stereo.thurstons.us/mf_cameras.htm

Thanks John for your excellent assessment of the 3DWorld Camera.
Regarding your version, you actually have the second model of the
prototype. The first was black and had an extruding shutter button
that easily triggered accidentally. Yours has several improvements,
many suggested by feedback at the NSA showing.

I can't find the comments Mike quoted regarding "poor ergonomics" on
your webpage. Can you please state these to me? 3D World is now
working on a new version that will have an new body design to help
with the ergonomics, however I would like to know your concerns.

Regarding Mike's comment on 1/500th sync: I have used this quite alot
on my earlier version. One of the folios now has a picture of a dog
running through the water on a beach to attest to its bang-on sync.
Having these high speed option has opened up a whole new world of
possiblilites!

Thanks again for your input on the camera,

Sam



-- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "Michael K. Davis" wrote:

>
> Hi John!
>
> Thanks for the great review of the 3D World TL120-1 - well done! Your
> comments regarding the poor ergonomics are disappointing, but I

appreciate

> your observations. I also like the artwork you did suggesting
> modifications to either the height of the shutter speed dial or the

shape

> and position of the advance lever.
>
> I'm really looking forward to your evaluation of the image quality
> (especially at f/8, on a tripod, with a fairly flat subject - so

that DoF

> and diffraction aren't an issue). I'm also curious about how well

it can

> sync moving subjects at 1/500th.
>
> Well, I'd better leave it at that, or you'll have to send me a bill for
> your services. :-)
>
> Thanks again for sharing your findings!
>
> Mike Davis
>
> At 08:52 PM 9/11/2006, you wrote:
>
><http://stereo.thurstons.us/mf_cameras.htm>http://stereo.thurstons.us/mf_cameras.htm
>

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "Sam Smith" wrote:

> I can't find the comments Mike quoted regarding "poor ergonomics" on
> your webpage. Can you please state these to me? 3D World is now
> working on a new version that will have an new body design to help
> with the ergonomics, however I would like to know your concerns.
>

Sorry, I found it. I thought your "comments" section was for the
reader to add comments! I see your version has 1/30 sync. Have you
tried it? Mine has 1/125th, so I'd really like to know if this was
really reduced. Also, my camera is flocked internally in black, while
yours appears grey. Can you confirm this?

Incidentally, Hasselblad finders will work on this camera if you
wanted a waist level finder to reduce bulk or weight. They just need a
slight shimmy.

Thanks,

Sam

Sam Smith wrote:

> Sorry, I found it. I thought your "comments" section
> was for the reader to add comments!

Nah. My site is privative, one-way web publishing. Think of
it as state-of-the-art 1999.

> I see your version has 1/30 sync. Have you
> tried it?

Yes...but I no longer have a local processor so have sent my
film to california (A&I) for processing. That seems to
require ten days round trip. I'm still awaiting its return.

> Also, my camera is flocked internally in black, while
> yours appears grey. Can you confirm this?

I think the grey appearance is from over-exposing the shots.
Getting pictures of the insides of cameras (which are
designed to absorb light rather than reflect it) is hard to do.

> Hasselblad finders will work on this camera if you
> wanted a waist level finder to reduce bulk or weight.

That is good to know, Sam. Thanks for the tip.
--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

> I've been waiting since '03 for this camera
> and have finally gotten my hands on one.

May I ask how you managed to do this? I am supposed to be selling these and
I still have not been able to get my hands on one.

George Themelis

At one point I was interested in this camera and emailed the contact
listed on their web site: http://www.3dworld.cn/e_index.asp
I got a reply from someone who offered to sell me one of the
prototypes. I don't quite remember the cost, but It was very
expensive, more money than what the camera will be going for once it
hits production.

Arthur Payson

On Sep 12, 2006, at 12:54 PM, DrT ((George Themelis)) wrote:

> > I've been waiting since '03 for this camera
> > and have finally gotten my hands on one.
>
> May I ask how you managed to do this? I am supposed to be selling
> these and
> I still have not been able to get my hands on one.
>
> George Themelis
>
>
>
>

DrT (George Themelis) wrote:

>> I've been waiting since '03 for this camera
>> and have finally gotten my hands on one.
>
> May I ask how you managed to do this? I am supposed to be selling these and
> I still have not been able to get my hands on one.

I dealt directly with 3D World with whom I have
been communicating for about a year.

They specifically told me that they were not yet
ready to do general sales to the US. Reasons cited
were the lack of a North American support network,
lack of any kind of warranty and repair locations
and continued product improvements.

I didn't exactly beg for the camera but I did ask
very politely and agreed that I wasn't expecting
there to be a local camera guy ready to work on it
for me.

As mentioned in my original message I was not asked
to sign an NDA when I bought it. I paid what I feel
is a retail amount for it so I feel I own the camera.
I didn't ask 3D World's permission to post information
about it for these reasons. I don't _think_ I'm
offending anyone by posting information regarding it
but that remains to be seen.

It is *not* my intent to offend the folks at 3D World
or to do an "end run" around a US distributer or to
cause trouble by sharing information.

It *is* my intent to share information with the
MF3Ders out there who have been waiting patiently
for a modern camera. Others have been supportive
and helpful when I've gone looking for help and
information about stereo imaging. In this case,
I've stepped up, shelled out a bunch of my money
so that others can see what may be available from
3D World.

If I learn anything more about the general availability
of the cameras, and when I finally get some sample
images back from processing, I'll be sure to let
y'all know.
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

> It is *not* my intent to offend the folks at 3D World
> or to do an "end run" around a US distributer or to
> cause trouble by sharing information.

Nobody said you are.

I was just curious. I asked for a camera to use in my trip to Greece (I left
August 20th) but I was told that this was not possible. I assume that you
got your camera after August 20th. I have not communicated with them since
I returned from Greece (Sept. 1st), thinking that if they are ready, they
would contact me and send me a camera. Wrong assumption, apparently.

George Themelis

DrT (George Themelis) wrote:

> I assume that you
> got your camera after August 20th.

I received mine on the 2nd of Sept.

Since then we've had two days when it wasn't pouring rain :(
It looks like thursday of this week may have enough light to
take pictures. If so, you won't find me at work!
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

Sam Smith wrote:

> Regarding your version, you actually have
> the second model of the prototype. The
> first was black and had an extruding shutter
> button that easily triggered accidentally.

I've just heard from 3D World expressing concern
that my images may make people think they are
producing a grey camera.

It is worth noting here that the camera I have
really is *black*. It's a nice, deep *black*.

The pictures were taken in my living room and
I don't own any studio lighting or soft-boxes.
I used available light on a very over-cast and
rainy Juneau day. This resulted in surface
reflections which make the camera appear grey.
The camera is black.
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
See the world in 3D at http://stereo.thurstons.us

Sam Smith wrote:

> I see your version has 1/30 sync. Have you
> tried it? Mine has 1/125th, so I'd really
> like to know if this was really reduced.

I performed a test this evening. Let me describe
the test setup and then the results.

== Setup:
TL120 with Vivitar 285 flash attached
Camera is pointed at a white wall about seven
feet away. The back of the camera is open with
my eye-balls where the film would go (the only
view of the wall is through the camera)

I would fire camera and observe the shape of
the light visible. I was able to see full,
white circles and in other cases see white circles
missing their lower sections (chopped of).

== Suggested interpretation:
When I see the full circle, I have correct
flash sync. When I see the flattened circle
the shutter is closing too soon for correct sync.

== Observation:
At 1/500 I don't see a consistent amount of light

At 1/250 I see full circles of light at f/16 and f/22

At 1/125 I see full circles of light at all apertures


== Hypotheses:
The camera can flash sync at 1/125 just fine.
They have published a sync speed of 1/30
just to be safe.

Please let me know if I have my methodology
correct. If so, I'll be willing to burn a
roll of flash shots at increasing speeds and
see what I get.
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us