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Subject: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-10 21:54:43
From: Michael K. Davis
Hi,

Would anyone care to compile a list of currently known problems with the
TL-120? It seems like a lot of issues have surfaced, but I suspect that
even when considered "en masse" they aren't all that bad.

Thanks,

Mike Davis
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-12 12:07:51
From: lattie_smart
--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "Michael K. Davis"
> even when considered "en masse" they aren't all that bad.

Though, considering the $1,400 price tag, we really shouldn't have to
resort back to Ye Ole Spuddie Refurbing and Foaming! :-(
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-12 12:45:26
From: John Thurston
Michael K. Davis wrote:
> Would anyone care to compile a list of
> currently known problems with the TL-120?
> It seems like a lot of issues have surfaced,
> but I suspect that even when considered
> "en masse" they aren't all that bad.

I am aware of only one "defect" - the reflection
from the inner end of the lens barrel causing
flare on the film. And this "defect" has manifested
itself on exactly two frames out of seven rolls
I've shot. I have not yet applied flocking to
this surface so I can't even say for sure that
I've correctly identified the "defect" or the "fix".

There are other "deficiencies" of the camera but
where do deficiencies stop and belly-aching begin?
The TL120-1 is limited by its
1/30 official flash sync speed
weak latch on the finder prism
large mass
f/2.8 lenses
lack of motor drive
lack of aperture priority
. . .
So what is a "defect", what is a "deficiency" and
what is a "pipe dream"?

It has a shutter that works, an advance mechanism
that works, a finder with which a view can be seen
and framed, a back I don't have to tape closed,
and lenses that are sharp and flat edge to edge.

Neither my Sputnik nor my Rolleidoscop has been
out of its bag since my TL120 arrived. I am
happy as a pig in shit with my TL120. I wouldn't
trade my TL120 for any other medium format camera
I have seen or heard of.
--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-12 13:06:08
From: DrT (George Themelis)
> Though, considering the $1,400 price tag....

I just paid $5,000 for a Horseman 3D camera that came with a generic 64mm
lens cover :)

Oh, I forgot. There was a $3 Radex viewer in the box too :)

George Themelis
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-12 14:03:34
From: Bill G
Hi Doc
>
> I just paid $5,000 for a Horseman 3D camera that came with a generic 64mm lens cover :)
>
>
I am curious what the slides from the horseman look
like, considering their ~38 mm interoc. spacing?


Bill G
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-12 17:17:00
From: hcalderbank
--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, John Thurston
wrote:
>
> I am aware of only one "defect" - the reflection
> from the inner end of the lens barrel causing
> flare on the film. And this "defect" has manifested
> itself on exactly two frames out of seven rolls
> I've shot. I have not yet applied flocking to
> this surface so I can't even say for sure that
> I've correctly identified the "defect" or the "fix".
>
> It has a shutter that works, an advance mechanism
> that works, a finder with which a view can be seen
> and framed, a back I don't have to tape closed,
> and lenses that are sharp and flat edge to edge.

I have only just applied flocking to the inner end of the lens
barrel but haven't yet had any film developed since the
modification. That is due later this week so I'll keep you posted
on its success or otherwise. After applying the flocking, I have
attempted to take the same shot that I sent to John Thurston who
very kindly posted it for me for you all to view. The comparison
will tell all.

For me, that is the only real shortcoming of the camera. As John so
eloquently put it, I too am as happy as a pig in pig pooh!

regards,

Harry Calderbank
hcalderbank@bigpond.com
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-12 18:07:07
From: Dale Yingst
John said:

I am aware of only one "defect" - the reflection
from the inner end of the lens barrel causing
flare on the film. And this "defect" has manifested
itself on exactly two frames out of seven rolls
I've shot. I have not yet applied flocking to
this surface so I can't even say for sure that
I've correctly identified the "defect" or the "fix".

I heard 3DWorld is making a fix to the viewfinder where some
were experiencing flare . I believe that it is the same
reflection problem as all three lenses are the same inside the
lens board. It would seem that as well as correcting the flare
in certain lighting conditions, the contrast might be improved
in all lighting.

. . .
So what is a "defect", what is a "deficiency" and
what is a "pipe dream"?

I don't know, but it's got me shooting MF now. The camera is
easy to use, the mounter is decent. In all, it's as easy ,
except for weight, as shooting and mounting 35mm . I have
other and good MF cameras but they were more of a hassle with
inconsistent shutters and results. I do wish there was a way
to cock the shutter without winding as I took some slide bar
shots this weekend and didn't want to waste a chip with each
shot. One problem with the TL120's weight, you need a hell of
a strong tripod to do a slide bar shot. I pretty much had to
steady the ends of the slide bar when shooting.



Dale Yingst
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-12 22:51:41
From: David W. Kesner
John Thurston writes:

> I am aware of only one "defect" - the reflection
> from the inner end of the lens barrel causing
> flare on the film. And this "defect" has manifested
> itself on exactly two frames out of seven rolls
> I've shot. I have not yet applied flocking to
> this surface so I can't even say for sure that
> I've correctly identified the "defect" or the "fix".

So this brings up a question for me.

1) Do I go ahead and make the modification before I even confirm its
presence?

2) Do I try and create it in a controlled condition first and make the
modification only if it shows?

3) Do I just go out and start shooting normally and wait for it to occur
and then make the modification?

Thanks,

David W. Kesner
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-12 22:55:55
From: David W. Kesner
Dale Yingst writes:

> I do wish there was a way
> to cock the shutter without winding as I took some slide bar
> shots this weekend and didn't want to waste a chip with each
> shot.

Don't think of it as wasting a chip, think of it as making an in-camera
dupe. *{;-)

Thanks,

David W. Kesner
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-12 23:14:02
From: John Thurston
David W. Kesner wrote:
> 2) Do I try and create it in a controlled
> condition first and make the modification
> only if it shows?

I'd go with option (2)
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-12 23:44:51
From: hcalderbank
--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "David W. Kesner"
wrote:
>
> 1) Do I go ahead and make the modification before I even confirm
its
> presence?
>
> 2) Do I try and create it in a controlled condition first and make
the
> modification only if it shows?
>
> 3) Do I just go out and start shooting normally and wait for it to
occur
> and then make the modification?
>
> Thanks,
>
> David W. Kesner
>
David,

I have already taken off my lens board and seen the problem outlined
by John Thurston first hand. With the number of problem images I've
been getting, I have already tried the modifcation with flocking the
inside of the lens rings at the back of each of the two taking
lenses. I've taken a few shots similar to the ones I had problems
with but I'm waiting to get that roll developed. Hopefully on
Friday I will know for sure if the mod works. I strongly suspect it
will as the amount of reflection on the inside of my lens rings was
really bad.

I'll try and post some before and after shots as soon as I can. Now
that I know where the problem is showing up on each shot, I have
noticed a little crescent of flare on many daylight shots too.
Sometimes just the brightness of the sky will cause the flare. I
think it will be worth the effort to do the mod.

Best way to see how bad yours may be is to open up the back door and
open the shutters on B while pointing the camera at any light
source. You'll easily see where the problem lies. John Thurston's
photos highlighted it perfectly.

regards,

Harry Calderbank
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-15 01:03:21
From: hcalderbank
I'm pleased to pass on the good news that the modification of flocking
the inside edge of the lens rings has worked a treat. I have taken a
similar image to the one on which the problem showed up the worst and
there is absolutely no sign of the flare.

I'll scan the new image as soon as I can and try and post it together
with the bad one for comparison.

regards

Harry Calderbank
hcalderbank@bigpond.com
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-15 02:06:58
From: Harry Calderbank
I've managed to post a couple of samples in the photos section of the
flare shots before and after the modification. I've just realised
that the one with the flare had a full moon and the second one
didn't. Whilst I'm sure some of the flare was from the full moon, I
think the lights contributed also.

regards,

Harry Calderbank
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-17 12:37:05
From: syoumans07
--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "hcalderbank"
wrote:
>
> I'm pleased to pass on the good news that the modification of
flocking
> the inside edge of the lens rings has worked a treat. I have taken a
> similar image to the one on which the problem showed up the worst and
> there is absolutely no sign of the flare.
>
> I'll scan the new image as soon as I can and try and post it together
> with the bad one for comparison.
>
> regards
>
> Harry Calderbank
> hcalderbank@...
>I've got a couple of questions regarding the flare and the fix. Where
do you get the flocking material and has anyone tried using rubber lens
hoods?

Thanks,

Scott
Phoenix, Arizona
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-17 13:12:40
From: Dale Yingst
syoumans07 wrote:
>
>
> >I've got a couple of questions regarding the flare and the fix. Where
> do you get the flocking material and has anyone tried using rubber lens
> hoods?
>





There are several on this list (including me) that have adhesive backed
flocking paper and could send you a small piece that would be more than
enough. I got the stuff originally as a background for macro shots. I
have collapseable lens hoods on now . You can see a picture of them in
the photos section under waist level viewfinder. I believe that hoods
may help somewhat with incidental light off the lens surfaces, but the
problem discovered was a reflection of the taking image off the internal
lens ring. My concern is placing the flocking without touching,
scratching, or getting adhesive on the lenses.

Dale Yingst
Subject: Re: Summary of TL-120 problems
Date: 2006-12-17 16:44:28
From: Harry Calderbank
--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, Dale Yingst wrote:

My concern is placing the flocking without touching,
> scratching, or getting adhesive on the lenses.
>
> Dale Yingst
>
I had the same worries about applying my self adhesive flocking. It
needs a steady hand and I found it useful to use a lens pen which I
could use to push the flocking into place with the edge of the lens
cleaning pad. You just need to make sure you get that first contact
nice and straight, then the rest should just follow suit. The lens
pen helped greatly to push the flocking onto the ring without getting
fingerprints or adhesive on the lens. So far, the self adhesive is
holding well.

regards,

Harry Calderbank