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Subject: Modified 3DWorld Mounting/Viewer Jig for power switch...
Date: 2007-01-29 17:48:13
From: Bruce

I recently received my new 3D World Medium Format Camera Kit. I will post a more
indepth review as I put the camera through its paces. Right from the start though there are
a couple of minor but important issues that I have with the camera and mounting jig. I felt
that the mounting jig could use a power switch so I wouldn't have to plug/unplug
everytime I wanted to use it. This is not as critical though has the lack of a power switch
for the camera. Both the shutter button and meter button are easily pushed and the
slightest touch from an object in the camera bag can activate either one. I noticed also
that on my last photo hike that the meter was on even without touching these buttons.
What's up with that? I would touch the shutter or meter button, release it and it would be
okay. I put my camera away for the day checking in the viewfinder to make sure that the
meter was deactivated and it was, then this afternoon I decided to check that it was still
functioning and as expected the batteries are dead. I'm already looking into a micro switch
to splice into the the battery supply. My switch for the viewer worked out fine and looks
quite professional. I'll provide a couple of pics in the photos section. The power switch for
the viewer is a push button type. I prefer it over a toggle switch as it won't get hung up on
on anything. I used a Radio Shack 275-617 Push-On/Off Switch. I opened the viewer back
and marked the plug with a magic marker for orientation and unplugged the wire form the
circuit board. VERY IMPORTANT: ONLY 1 WIRE WILL GET CUT ( I CHOSE THE RED STRIPPED
WIRE). Once this wire is cut and about 1/4" of the covering removed from both pieces the
two ends will be attached with solder to the 2 prongs of the power switch. Power switch
must be installed into the back of the unit before you solder. You will need to drill a pilot
hole and then a larger hole to finish the job. Make sure that you hold the mounting unit
firmly but carefully when drilling. I installed mine an inch or so to the left of the ac adaptor
socket. I used a 5/64" bit for the pilot hole and a 1/2" for the final hole. THIS WILL
OBVIOUSLY VOID ANY WARRANTY ON THE OUTFIT but I figure by the time I get done with
shipping costs etc. to China that I will be a very unhappy person. I was kind of hoping that
when I bought this third variation that most of these issues would be taken care of but for
some reason Russia and China take a very long time to work out what should be moot
problems. I hope that this information is useful and I'm sure I'll find the forum the same.
I'm looking forward to meeting other users of this potentially fine camera.

Subject: switching the TL120 meter off [was: Modified 3DWorld Mounting/Viewe
Date: 2007-01-29 18:24:20
From: John Thurston

Bruce wrote:

> I recently received my new 3D World Medium Format
> Camera Kit.

Are you new to medium-format 3D or just to the TL120-1?

> . . . the lack of a power switch for the camera.
> Both the shutter button and meter button are
> easily pushed and the slightest touch from an
> object in the camera bag can activate either one.

Yes, it is the case that a slight touch on ether
button will activate the meter. In practice, the
power consumed by the meter is only 5ma (see my
message to this group on Dec 5, 2006 #301). I'm
not too worried about it getting switched on in
my pack and killing my batteries. Your problem,
however, where the meter seems to be active even
when the button isn't pressed would be of greater
concern.

I'm most concerned with the shutter-button getting
pressed and tripping the shutter as I can't re-cock
the shutter without advancing the film :( I advance
the film _after_ my shot so that the camera is
ready to go. Placing a power switch on the camera
will not prevent the shutter from firing. The
battery power is used to time the closing of the
shutter, but opening the shutter is purely mechanical
(as can be confirmed by firing the shutter with the
battery removed). I keep meaning to build a button
lock my TL120 but haven't gotten aroundtuit yet.

--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

Subject: Re: switching the TL120 meter off [was: Modified 3DWorld Mounting/V
Date: 2007-01-30 06:37:27
From: Bruce

Hi John,
I've dabbled in the Sputnik with mixed but not all together
unpleasant results. I've shot realist format off and on since 1991.
I really enjoy the big image of mf and wanted to get a modern mf
camera. I put off buying the tl120 until I heard some more positive
reviews and after reading Dr. T's auction description about the
current version working out some of the bugs of the 2 earlier
versions I thought I would give it a try. I must say though that I'm
a little disappointed that the problems that are occurring are of
such a fundamental nature. These issues could have been eliminated
with just the tiniest attention to basic operational detail and a
couple of bucks for the parts. An update on my meter problem. I
stated in my last entry that I picked the camera up the next
afternoon after experiencing the meter operating without pushing any
buttons the day before and stated that the batteries had apparently
died. Well, I picked it up again that evening and tried it and the
meter is working. Must be a loose connection or defective part. I
have a feeling this is going to be long and patient process to get
the camera where it will be usable and trusted. If you ever figure
out a way to make a shutter button lock work, let me know. Even
though the camera was expensive it's not financially practical to
ship it back to China for repairs (assuming they're capable of
making repairs to a brand new camera that doesn't work in the first
place). Honestly, I knew the risk before I made the purchase and I
was hoping that I would be proved wrong but some things never
change. All you need to do is to look back historically at China and
Russia photo products. There have been some potentially great
products but poor workmanship and quality control usually put them
in the wannabe group. If we could only get the Japanese to build an
affordable (not Horseman) mf3d camera. I'm going to stick with my
3DWorld because I think it has potential I just hope that it doesn't
frustrate me too much. Thanks for your interest. I will update as I
progress.

Subject: Re: switching the TL120 meter off [was: Modified 3DWorld Mounting/V
Date: 2007-01-30 07:59:35
From: Sam Smith

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" wrote:

>

I must say though that I'm

> a little disappointed that the problems that are occurring are of
> such a fundamental nature.

Bruce,

Did you buy it direct or through a distributor? There are some
distributors who are in the process of offering domestic repair for
this camera. Canada is setting up one, and I believe the US also has
one but I can't confirm this.

Sam

Subject: Re: switching the TL120 meter off [was: Modified 3DWorld Mounting/V
Date: 2007-01-30 08:10:54
From: Bruce

Hi Sam,
I purchased mine from Dr. T via ebay. It would be nice if there were a
local repair service and they get up and running within my warranty
period. I've modified my mounting/viewing jig though. I wonder if that
will affect the whole package including the camera. I'll hold off
doing anything to my camera until I get clarification concerning
possible USA repair facility. Thanks for the info.

Subject: Re: switching the TL120 meter off [was: Modified 3DWorld Mounting/V
Date: 2007-01-30 13:07:58
From: lattie_smart

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce" wrote:
I'll hold off
> doing anything to my camera until I get clarification concerning
> possible USA repair facility. Thanks for the info.
>

From DDDalia's site (***s mine):
"Warranty:
Each camera comes complete with a One Year - Manufacturer's
Warranty. The Warranty and Repair Facility is at the factory in
China.

**** By keeping the Warranty and Repair Facility at the factory, and
not opening facilities in North America and Europe - the camera is
able to be priced hundreds of dollars less than what would have been
necessary.***

Should warranty work ever become necessary, consumer must pay for
shipping to the factory. Warranty work, and return shipping is paid
by the manufacturer. If the camera is purchased from 3Dstereo, the
consumer still pays for the shipping back to the factory, but can
merely ship it to 3Dstereo and 3Dstereo will handle the
international shipping and Customs documentation. Repaired or
replaced camera is returned directly by the factory to the consumer."

Subject: Giving up on the TL120 [was: switching the TL120 meter off ]
Date: 2007-02-02 15:09:25
From: John Thurston

on January 30, 2007 Bruce wrote:

> . . . I'm going to stick with my 3DWorld because
> I think it has potential I just hope that it
> doesn't frustrate me too much.

on February 2, 2007 Bruce writes:

> . . I'm going to be honest and say that I'm
> very disappointed with the so-called third
> variation of this camera. I expected to unpack
> it and shoot some very nice photos. The only
> thing I've suceeded in doing is question my
> ability to make a wise purchase.

Wow, Bruce, that's a big switch in just a few
days. I'll have to infer from these two notes
that the TL120 finally frustrated you too much
to continue with it.

I'm really not trying to get your blood pressure
up. Nor am I going to try to convince you that
the TL120 is the perfect camera for your needs.
I'm just very curious (and I suspect other current
and potential TL120 users are too). Were there
problems other than the sticky meter button that
helped you decide to sell your TL120?
--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

Subject: Re: Giving up on the TL120 [was: switching the TL120 meter off ]
Date: 2007-02-02 16:38:37
From: Bruce

I'm really not trying to get your blood pressure

> up. Nor am I going to try to convince you that
> the TL120 is the perfect camera for your needs.
> I'm just very curious (and I suspect other current
> and potential TL120 users are too). Were there
> problems other than the sticky meter button that
> helped you decide to sell your TL120?

Hi John,
It's not that I'm real ticked off, it's just I've been thinking over the last couple of days about
making the purchase and how almost as soon as I take it out of the box it has issues
which are not particularly easy to fix. It's a brand new camera for gosh sakes! Something
tells me and my intuition is usually right (and if I ignore my intuition I will pay for it) to get
rid of it. I'm not trying to 'gloom and doom' the situation and I hope that whoever makes
the purchase or has made the purchase will have nothing but fun with it but it just doesn't
feel right to me. I may have to put it on the shelf and forget about for awhile. We'll see.

Subject: Re: Giving up on the TL120
Date: 2007-02-02 16:45:16
From: John Thurston

John Thurston asked:

>> I'm really not trying to get your blood pressure
>> up. Nor am I going to try to convince you that
>> the TL120 is the perfect camera for your needs.
>> I'm just very curious (and I suspect other current
>> and potential TL120 users are too). Were there
>> problems other than the sticky meter button that
>> helped you decide to sell your TL120?

Bruce responded:

> I'm not trying to 'gloom and doom' the situation
> and I hope that whoever makes the purchase or has
> made the purchase will have nothing but fun with
> it but it just doesn't feel right to me.

That _that_ is a perfectly valid reason. Photography
is art and the creative process has to feel right to work
correctly. Thank you for sharing.

--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

Subject: Re: Giving up on the TL120
Date: 2007-02-02 20:18:39
From: DrT (George Themelis)

> Bruce responded:
> > I'm not trying to 'gloom and doom' the situation
> > and I hope that whoever makes the purchase or has
> > made the purchase will have nothing but fun with
> > it but it just doesn't feel right to me.
>
> That _that_ is a perfectly valid reason. Photography
> is art and the creative process has to feel right to work
> correctly. Thank you for sharing.

Well, I am sorry... "Does not feel right" is "a perfectly valid reason" to
sell a brand new stereo camera at a loss? I don't get it.

Sounds like an excuse not to deal with some minor issues.

All the RBT cameras I have purchased for 3-4x the price of the 3D World
camera had issues. Serious issues. And it is not only me.... My own RBT S1
had a battery drain (fixed) and many times cannot rewind the film back to
the canister. I have to carry a change bag with my, so I can open the
camera and remove the film. That's a serious issue but I willing to live
with it, because I enjoy the camera and the pictures that come out of it.

George Themelis

Subject: Re: Giving up on the TL120
Date: 2007-02-02 21:12:29
From: John Thurston

DrT (George Themelis) wrote:

> Well, I am sorry... "Does not feel right" is
> "a perfectly valid reason" to sell a brand
> new stereo camera at a loss? I don't get it.

a'yup. It isn't a business investment. The
camera is but a tool used in the creation of
photographic art. It has to feel right. It
has to fit. It doesn't matter how it might
work for you or for me. If it doesn't work
for the artist who has it in hand, it
shouldn't be used.

The tool has to fit the job.

I have a pencil pot on my desk. What I use
depends on what feels right at the time for
the job before me. A #2 Ticonderoga is a
nice generic pencil for most things. Sometimes,
I feel like using a #2 Velvet. Sometimes
I reach for one of my few remaining #3 Velvets
or a #4 Mirado. There is no place in my pencil
pot for a #2 Choice or #2 Empire. Others like
them but I can't stand them. They don't feel
right. They are not tools I choose to use.
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

Subject: Re: Giving up on the TL120
Date: 2007-02-02 21:33:40
From: DrT (George Themelis)

> The tool has to fit the job.

I happen to believe that it takes time to love someone.... or something for
this matter. You work out some issues. You learn to live with some other
issues. You learn to love the tools as you use them to create your art. I
learned to love my first Realist because I loved the pictures I was getting
out of it.

> I have a pencil pot on my desk. What I use
> depends on what feels right at the time for
> the job before me. A #2 Ticonderoga is a
> nice generic pencil for most things. Sometimes,
> I feel like using a #2 Velvet.

Wouldn't be nice if Medium Format stereo camera were as inexpensive and
readily available as your pencils? Unfortunately, this is not the case
here. People have learned to work with Sputniks for the love of MF3d.

Anyway, I guess it is a matter of personality. I would have never done what
Bruce is doing here.

George

Subject: Re: Giving up on the TL120 [was: switching the TL120 meter off ]
Date: 2007-02-02 21:58:52
From: scott.youmans@scyphoto.com

I've had my share of issues with the TL120 myself. I'm not sure if my earlier comments made it into circulation. Although I'm quite happy with the results I'm getting now that I have rubber lens shades installed, there still remains the issue of cracks in the plastic body frame that surrounds the film door. These cracks are very fine but extend from many of the screw holes. The factory says that they're just in the paint but I'm not so sure. In either case there shouldn't be cracks in a brand new $1,300 camera. I suggest looking closely at the body under a bright light. I doubt that mine is the only one in this condition.

Another issue is a break in the plastic rail component that holds the prism finder onto the body. The break is along the piece that connects the left and right rails on the back side of the camera. This is very weak structuraly. I believe it was broken during shipment due the the large unsupported mass of the prism. It would be advisable to remove the prism for shipment. Neither of these conditions affects the picture taking cabability but I tend to enjoy working with nice equipment and so it diminishes to some extent my enjoyment of a fairly significant purchase.

Scott Youmans

----- Original Message ----
From: Bruce
To: MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 2, 2007 3:38:23 PM
Subject: [MF3D-group] Re: Giving up on the TL120 [was: switching the TL120 meter off ]

I'm really not trying to get your blood pressure

> up. Nor am I going to try to convince you that
> the TL120 is the perfect camera for your needs.
> I'm just very curious (and I suspect other current
> and potential TL120 users are too). Were there
> problems other than the sticky meter button that
> helped you decide to sell your TL120?