Greetings,

I have a 3D World MF camera set in my hands (just arrived, not opened yet)
ready for immediate shipment. Please contact me if you are interested.

George Themelis
drt-3d@att.net

Hey George!

At 11:55 AM 2/2/2007, you wrote:

>Greetings,
>
>I have a 3D World MF camera set in my hands (just arrived, not opened yet)
>ready for immediate shipment. Please contact me if you are interested.

Please let us know when that camera has sold.

Why am I making this request? Pick one:

A) To celebrate the sale...
B) To mollify the torment of indecision I'm suffering...
C) To provide the list with an indication of current market demand...

:-)

Thanks!

Mike Davis

Hi!

Does anyone have a feel for how many TL-120's have been shipped to the U.S.?

I've heard that the TL-120's have serial numbers on them. If someone has
only recently taken delivery, I'm curious what serial numbers are currently
shipping.

I would dearly like to see 3DWorld succeed, but I'm concerned that the MF3D
market here might already be nearing saturation. It "feels" as if a lot of
us have bought them already. (I say "us" because I'm a member of this forum
- not because I've bought a TL-120 - not yet, anyway.)

Thanks,

Mike Davis

Michael K. Davis wrote:

>
>
> Hi!
>
> Does anyone have a feel for how many TL-120's have been shipped to the
> U.S.?
>

It is my guess from conversations that it is in the low hundreds at
this point. That makes the changes already made and future ones I've
heard about all the more remarkable.

Dale Yingst

>
>

My serial # is LT120 00010123. An additional pic has been added as well. Found a way to
make a pair of $8.00 lens shades work and the Canon 155A flash is a perfect fit for the
camera. Yes, I'm trying to find a way to make it work. I don't hate the camera. Just not real
excited about it at the moment. I suppose I could go to my place of purchase and ask for
an exchange or refund since it is brand new. My dealer is a very upstanding individual and
I don't think he'd have a problem with it. I'll keep everyone posted.

Bruce wrote:

> My serial # is LT120 00010123.

Where did you find the SN?

> the Canon 155A flash is a perfect fit

Speaking of "perfect fit", I've been using
my Vivitar 285 on my TL120 and keep meaning
to take a picture of it on the camera. It's
like the camera was made to clear it.
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

Mike Davis writes:

> I've heard that the TL-120's have serial numbers on them. If someone has
> only recently taken delivery, I'm curious what serial numbers are
> currently shipping

If I am looking in the right place my serial number is LT120 00120.

Is it just coincidence that I got serial number 120 for my 120???

Thanks,

David W. Kesner

Hi John,
My serial number is on the bottom of the camera to the right of the battery cover (oriented
as if you're viewing the number the correct way up).

Hi David,
Did you possibly leave a number out of your serial number? Mine is LT120 0010123. The
reason I'm asking is that I'm trying to pick up a pattern. If yours is 00120 were there
10,000 cameras made between ours. Probably not even if your number is correct. Just
wondering.



Bruce

John Thurston writes:

> Where did you find the SN?

On the bottom of the camera.

Bruce writes:

> My serial # is LT120 00010123.

David W. Kesner writes:

> my serial number is LT120 00120

So why did they use such different numbering schemes on these two
cameras? Especially when it appears they were made only three apart. And
why are they using LT120 when the model is the TL120?

Thanks,

David W. Kesner

My camera has no serial number on it. Must be a cheap Chinese copy!!

Harry C.

Brice writes:

> Did you possibly leave a number out of your serial number? Mine is LT120
> 0010123.

As you have probably seen by my other post, no I did not leave out any
numbers from mine.

> The reason I'm asking is that I'm trying to pick up a pattern. If
> yours is 00120 were there 10,000 cameras made between ours. Probably not
> even if your number is correct.

I have not had mine that long (early December), but have no idea when it
was actually manufactured.

We really need to be asking Dr. T. and Dalia if they are recording the
serial numbers on the units they are selling or if all are being direct
shipped from the factory.

Thanks,

David W. Kesner

> John Thurston writes:
>> Where did you find the SN?

David W. Kesner wrote:

> On the bottom of the camera.

Mine has no numbers. It must be unique!

(I have a two-contact metered prism.
Maybe they didn't start numbering until
they moved to the three-contact prism.)
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

I'm just guessing, but it sounds as if the first batch of TL-120's didn't
have serial numbers, but now they do - and they've produced something less
than 200, thus far. You have to appreciate just how many improvements
they've made across so few units. The camera is evolving so rapidly it
could be radically different by the time they sell 1000 of them.

Mike Davis

Future changes - yeah so what's that say for those that bought the "trial"
versions in trying to get it right? I hope there might be a buy back if
there are changes made in that sort of time frame.

..dan

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Danny Vint

Specializing in Panoramic Images of California and the West
http://www.dvint.com

Voice:510:522-4703
FAX: 801-749-3229

On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, Michael K. Davis wrote:

>
> I'm just guessing, but it sounds as if the first batch of TL-120's didn't
> have serial numbers, but now they do - and they've produced something less
> than 200, thus far. You have to appreciate just how many improvements
> they've made across so few units. The camera is evolving so rapidly it
> could be radically different by the time they sell 1000 of them.
>
> Mike Davis
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

I can't resist making a comment here, particularly after following
this thread over the past several days......

C'mon now folks! - the development of a new camera is an iterative
process and even more so for a small manufacturer. How often does
Canon or Nikon get it right on the first try?

I'm still waiting for Canon to get the 5D right before I buy one.

In my opinion, to all who bought early versions of this camera or
any camera for that matter - look at the positives and stop chasing
the negatives (no pun intended). If you can't do that, you shouldn't
buy one yet. That's the trade-off - buying the first version of
something so you can use it now, vs waiting for bugs to be worked
out. IMHO, with a niche camera like this one, it is amazing that
they are making ANY modifications this early on and should be
commended. I think the camera is well suited for a number of the
talented people on this list who are handy and can make adjustments
to it. I think one only has oneself to blame if the intention is to
buy a mature product.

I'm not good at camera modifications but I may buy one of these
cameras at some point when I feel more comfortable with its
progress. So to reply to an earlier post speculating that the market
may saturate quickly - don't be so sure !

Regards,
Bob Schlesinger

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, Danny Vint wrote:
>
>
> Future changes - yeah so what's that say for those that bought
the "trial"
> versions in trying to get it right? I hope there might be a buy
back if
> there are changes made in that sort of time frame.
>
> ..dan
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> Danny Vint
>
> Specializing in Panoramic Images of California and the West
> http://www.dvint.com
>
> Voice:510:522-4703
> FAX: 801-749-3229
>
> On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, Michael K. Davis wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm just guessing, but it sounds as if the first batch of TL-
120's didn't
> > have serial numbers, but now they do - and they've produced
something less
> > than 200, thus far. You have to appreciate just how many
improvements
> > they've made across so few units. The camera is evolving so
rapidly it
> > could be radically different by the time they sell 1000 of them.
> >
> > Mike Davis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

A first version of a Canon or Nikon model doesn't immediatly get changed
or get to market before it is considered ready. If this camera changes
every couple hundred items and is still considered the same camera minus
a slight Model II monikor, I would hope to share in the advances without
having to pay full price for the updated version.

..dan

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Danny Vint

Specializing in Panoramic Images of California and the West
http://www.dvint.com

Voice:510:522-4703
FAX: 801-749-3229

On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, bobschlesinger1 wrote:

> I can't resist making a comment here, particularly after following
> this thread over the past several days......
>
> C'mon now folks! - the development of a new camera is an iterative
> process and even more so for a small manufacturer. How often does
> Canon or Nikon get it right on the first try?
>
> I'm still waiting for Canon to get the 5D right before I buy one.
>
> In my opinion, to all who bought early versions of this camera or
> any camera for that matter - look at the positives and stop chasing
> the negatives (no pun intended). If you can't do that, you shouldn't
> buy one yet. That's the trade-off - buying the first version of
> something so you can use it now, vs waiting for bugs to be worked
> out. IMHO, with a niche camera like this one, it is amazing that
> they are making ANY modifications this early on and should be
> commended. I think the camera is well suited for a number of the
> talented people on this list who are handy and can make adjustments
> to it. I think one only has oneself to blame if the intention is to
> buy a mature product.
>
> I'm not good at camera modifications but I may buy one of these
> cameras at some point when I feel more comfortable with its
> progress. So to reply to an earlier post speculating that the market
> may saturate quickly - don't be so sure !
>
> Regards,
> Bob Schlesinger
>
> --- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, Danny Vint wrote:
>>
>>
>> Future changes - yeah so what's that say for those that bought
> the "trial"
>> versions in trying to get it right? I hope there might be a buy
> back if
>> there are changes made in that sort of time frame.
>>
>> ..dan
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
>> Danny Vint
>>
>> Specializing in Panoramic Images of California and the West
>> http://www.dvint.com
>>
>> Voice:510:522-4703
>> FAX: 801-749-3229
>>
>> On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, Michael K. Davis wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm just guessing, but it sounds as if the first batch of TL-
> 120's didn't
>>> have serial numbers, but now they do - and they've produced
> something less
>>> than 200, thus far. You have to appreciate just how many
> improvements
>>> they've made across so few units. The camera is evolving so
> rapidly it
>>> could be radically different by the time they sell 1000 of them.
>>>
>>> Mike Davis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Sorry, I couldn't agree with you less.

1) Who considers when a camera is ready? I maintain that Canon and
Nikon have brought cameras to market that aren't ready. Then again,
if people buy and use them, they are "ready" to those people. So
who is right? The market is always right.

2) Canon and Nikon don't make immediate changes because of the large
scale investment they have made in the product runs. A small
manufacturer like 3D World wouldn't have to either - again it is to
their credit that they are doing so. I would rather they work
towards perfecting their camera than waiting the 18 months to 2
years Canon does before they can justify an upgrade.

I am sorry you are so unhappy that you bought a camera that you feel
wasn't ready for market. Others seem to disagree. However don't
hold your breath for a discounted upgrade. After all, this is a
CAMERA - you didn't buy software, for instance. And the company is
in China for goodness sake !

-Bob

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, Danny Vint wrote:
>
> A first version of a Canon or Nikon model doesn't immediatly get
changed
> or get to market before it is considered ready. If this camera
changes
> every couple hundred items and is still considered the same camera
minus
> a slight Model II monikor, I would hope to share in the advances
without
> having to pay full price for the updated version.
>
> ..dan
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> Danny Vint
>
> Specializing in Panoramic Images of California and the West
> http://www.dvint.com
>
> Voice:510:522-4703
> FAX: 801-749-3229
>
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, bobschlesinger1 wrote:
>
> > I can't resist making a comment here, particularly after
following
> > this thread over the past several days......
> >
> > C'mon now folks! - the development of a new camera is an
iterative
> > process and even more so for a small manufacturer. How often
does
> > Canon or Nikon get it right on the first try?
> >
> > I'm still waiting for Canon to get the 5D right before I buy one.
> >
> > In my opinion, to all who bought early versions of this camera or
> > any camera for that matter - look at the positives and stop
chasing
> > the negatives (no pun intended). If you can't do that, you
shouldn't
> > buy one yet. That's the trade-off - buying the first version of
> > something so you can use it now, vs waiting for bugs to be worked
> > out. IMHO, with a niche camera like this one, it is amazing that
> > they are making ANY modifications this early on and should be
> > commended. I think the camera is well suited for a number of the
> > talented people on this list who are handy and can make
adjustments
> > to it. I think one only has oneself to blame if the intention is
to
> > buy a mature product.
> >
> > I'm not good at camera modifications but I may buy one of these
> > cameras at some point when I feel more comfortable with its
> > progress. So to reply to an earlier post speculating that the
market
> > may saturate quickly - don't be so sure !
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bob Schlesinger
> >
> > --- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, Danny Vint wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Future changes - yeah so what's that say for those that bought
> > the "trial"
> >> versions in trying to get it right? I hope there might be a buy
> > back if
> >> there are changes made in that sort of time frame.
> >>
> >> ..dan
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------
---
> > --------
> >> Danny Vint
> >>
> >> Specializing in Panoramic Images of California and the West
> >> http://www.dvint.com
> >>
> >> Voice:510:522-4703
> >> FAX: 801-749-3229
> >>
> >> On Sun, 4 Feb 2007, Michael K. Davis wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I'm just guessing, but it sounds as if the first batch of TL-
> > 120's didn't
> >>> have serial numbers, but now they do - and they've produced
> > something less
> >>> than 200, thus far. You have to appreciate just how many
> > improvements
> >>> they've made across so few units. The camera is evolving so
> > rapidly it
> >>> could be radically different by the time they sell 1000 of
them.
> >>>
> >>> Mike Davis
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Danny Vint wrote:

> A first version of a Canon or Nikon model doesn't immediatly get changed
> or get to market before it is considered ready. If this camera changes
> every couple hundred items and is still considered the same camera minus
> a slight Model II monikor, I would hope to share in the advances without
> having to pay full price for the updated version.
>
> ..dan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Danny Vint
>
> Specializing in Panoramic Images of California and the West
> http://www.dvint.com
>
> Voice:510:522-4703
> FAX: 801-749-3229
>
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007, bobschlesinger1 wrote:
>
>
>>I can't resist making a comment here, particularly after following
>>this thread over the past several days......
>>
>>C'mon now folks! - the development of a new camera is an iterative
>>process and even more so for a small manufacturer. How often does
>>Canon or Nikon get it right on the first try?
>>
>>I'm still waiting for Canon to get the 5D right before I buy one.
>>
>>In my opinion, to all who bought early versions of this camera or
>>any camera for that matter - look at the positives and stop chasing
>>the negatives (no pun intended). If you can't do that, you shouldn't
>>buy one yet. That's the trade-off - buying the first version of
>>something so you can use it now, vs waiting for bugs to be worked
>>out. IMHO, with a niche camera like this one, it is amazing that
>>they are making ANY modifications this early on and should be
>>commended. I think the camera is well suited for a number of the
>>talented people on this list who are handy and can make adjustments
>>to it. I think one only has oneself to blame if the intention is to
>>buy a mature product.
>>
>>I'm not good at camera modifications but I may buy one of these
>>cameras at some point when I feel more comfortable with its
>>progress. So to reply to an earlier post speculating that the market
>>may saturate quickly - don't be so sure !
>>
>>Regards,
>>Bob Schlesinger

I agree with Bob S. I doubt that 3D World has made any money
on their TL-120 cameras. I , also have doubts that they will
ever make a proffit on such a niche item. Try buying a sharp,
80mm, f/2.8, multi-coated lens, of limited production, for less than
$1000 each, and also, get them matched as regards to their focal length.

I am not aware that any of the 1950s stereo cameras made any serious
modifications to their, original, stereo cameras. Was the Realist 3.5
improved significantly between 1949 and in 1968- not that I am
aware of, and they had more than 10 years, to make a significant
change, (such as a bright line VF, in any of their cameras).
The Realist people did install better the optics on their f/2.8 models,
but not on the f/3.5 models.

Does anyone know of any camera company that buys back their initial
production ?


Best regards,

DON

bobschlesinger1 wrote:

> I would rather they work towards perfecting
> their camera than waiting the 18 months to 2
> years Canon does before they can justify
> an upgrade.

I've been watching this camera in development
since 2003. I'm as happy as a pig in shit that
3D-World has managed to get this camera to market.
When they finally had a product to ship, I
shelled out a bundle of money to a Chinese
company for a camera I had never actually seen
because:
A) I wanted a camera with a modern shutter
and coated lenses
B) Someone had to go first

The product is not perfect but I don't plan
on giving mine up until I can no longer afford
to get my film processed.
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

Danny Vint writes:

> Future changes - yeah so what's that say for those that bought the "trial"
> versions in trying to get it right? I hope there might be a buy back if
> there are changes made in that sort of time frame.

There are only two real changes that I see needing from the model I
currently own. One is the ability to recock the shutter for double
exposures and the other is shorter fl lenses. My model can't be upgraded
for the shutter, but it can easily accept a new lensboard if they were to
make one.

So, I guess the question for me is, what are ALL these upgrades that
people are waiting for? Are they minor things like the shutter release
protector (like John Thurston made)? A waist level finder (like you can
get for the Kiev/Hassy)? Or is there something major that I am missing?

I really like this camera and am VERY pleased with the images I am
getting. I carried the camera and a tripod in a backpack out in the
Oregon high desert on Saturday and the camera performed flawlessly. I was
shooting in shady slot canyons, and bright open plains. The day after I
went to the mountains and shot snow covered stream banks with wonderous
ice crystal formations. Some of those shots were done at distances as
close as 1.5 meters. Some were shot with snow in both shadow and sunlight
at the same time. Many were shot pointing into the sun without lens
shades. I have looked at them unmounted and everything seems fine. I will
mount this weekend and see the real results.

If I were to have waited for the "final" version of this camera (is there
ever a final version to any camera?) I would have missed all the images I
now have.

I, for one, have no problem whole-heartedly recommending this camera to
anyone interested in medium format stereo.

Thanks,

David W. Kesner

Dave Kesner said:

There are only two real changes that I see needing from the
model I
currently own. One is the ability to recock the shutter for
double
exposures and the other is shorter fl lenses. My model can't be
upgraded
for the shutter, but it can easily accept a new lensboard if
they were to
make one.

I agree 100%. One quibble is that my hot shoe mount is super
tight and hard to mount a flash. A wider lens (60 to 70MM)
panel with lower fstops (starting at f4.5 or 5.6 to f32) would
be a pound or so lighter, make 1/60 shutter speeds sharper for
us shakey people, and give a wider DOF range. That would
certainly be nice, but I still love the camera as is. It fits
so well in two hands and its weight and light shutter make
handholding shooting a reality in MF stereo . It brought
actively into MF.

I went to my first model shoot ever and took the TL120 as well
as an RBT. Boy, did the TL120 generate so conversation. My
handheld 1/120 shots came out fine.

Dale Yingst

Dale Yingst writes:

> One quibble is that my hot shoe mount is super
> tight and hard to mount a flash

I just checked mine with several different flash shoes including a
Vivitar 283 with both original plastic foot and replacement metal foot,
an adpator with a pc connect (one that I used with my Realist), an old
Honeywell Tilt-O-Mite bulb flash, and a tilting hotshoe adpator. All of
these slid in just fine, not too tight or too loose. I am really
beginning to wonder if I got some super special model without any
problems or defects *{;-)

If the hot shoe on your TL120 is too tight just bend the ears up a
little, if it is too loose just bend them down a little *{;-)

Thanks,

David W. Kesner

I just received #151, 162 and 172. My last order was for #121, which
means it takes 1-2 working days to complete each camera at their
current rate of production.

Sam

I just received #151, 162 and 172. My last order was for #121, which
means it takes 1-2 working days to complete each camera at their
current rate of production.

Sam

Sam SMith writes:

> I just received #151, 162 and 172. My last order was for #121, which
> means it takes 1-2 working days to complete each camera at their
> current rate of production

What is the actual full serial # of these? I am asking because we have
seen three different numbering methods already. My camera was number 120
and if you have 121 I would assume it was made right after mine. I have
had no problems with mine at all and wonder if you are experiencing the
same with #121 or see any difference bewteen it and the later ones?

Thanks,

David W. Kesner

LT120 00151

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "David W. Kesner" wrote:
>
> Sam SMith writes:
>
> > I just received #151, 162 and 172. My last order was for #121, which
> > means it takes 1-2 working days to complete each camera at their
> > current rate of production
>
> What is the actual full serial # of these? I am asking because we have
> seen three different numbering methods already. My camera was number
120
> and if you have 121 I would assume it was made right after mine. I have
> had no problems with mine at all and wonder if you are experiencing the
> same with #121 or see any difference bewteen it and the later ones?
>
> Thanks,
>
> David W. Kesner
>