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Subject: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-27 11:38:05
From: Dr. Kevin Pernicano

Hi.

I finally got my Tl120 out this morning and did some
shooting. Really neat, easy to load and use.

I did find a new and neat feature that I had not heard
about in previous reviews. The wind mechanism, after
advancing film (and auto-cocking the shutter) can now
be pushed in towards the camera body where it locks
(!) the release so it cannot be accidentally fired.

I thought at first I had a problem because the shutter
would not trip when I pushed the button, but once I
figured out that they had added a lock feature, I
thought it was a really nice idea.

I will let folks know about the results when the
chromes come back in.

-kp

Dr. Kevin Pernicano
Louisville, KY, USA (Home of the Kentucky Derby)

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Subject: Re: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-27 12:39:56
From: David W. Kesner

Dr. Kevin Pernicano writes:

> I did find a new and neat feature that I had not heard
> about in previous reviews. The wind mechanism, after
> advancing film (and auto-cocking the shutter) can now
> be pushed in towards the camera body where it locks
> (!) the release so it cannot be accidentally fired.

This feature is not available on my camera. When did you purchase yours?
What is the serial number? Can you post an image of this new shutter
release?

Thanks,

David W. Kesner

Subject: Re: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-27 12:47:39
From: John Thurston

Dr. Kevin Pernicano wrote:

> I did find a new and neat feature that I had not heard
> about in previous reviews. The wind mechanism, after
> advancing film (and auto-cocking the shutter) can now
> be pushed in towards the camera body where it locks
> (!) the release so it cannot be accidentally fired.

Like totally kewl, dewd :)

I would beat my half-assed attempts to accomplish
the same thing.
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

Subject: Re: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-27 18:35:32
From: Michael K. Davis

Bill,

3DWorld is getting as bad as Alan Lewis when it comes to model differences - can't make 20 in a row the same way. Hopefully they won't break anything that's working along the way.

Mike

At 01:39 PM 5/27/2007, you wrote:

Dr. Kevin Pernicano writes:

> I did find a new and neat feature that I had not heard
> about in previous reviews. The wind mechanism, after
> advancing film (and auto-cocking the shutter) can now
> be pushed in towards the camera body where it locks
> (!) the release so it cannot be accidentally fired.

This feature is not available on my camera. When did you purchase yours?
What is the serial number? Can you post an image of this new shutter
release?

Thanks,

David W. Kesner

Subject: Re: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-27 22:13:23
From: DrT (George Themelis)

I saw one of the last cameras (shipped to me in May) and it looks different
than the pictures I have in my web site. Quite obvious is the viewing
part... instead of viewing straight on, the viewfinder is pointing down by
maybe 45 degrees...

> 3DWorld is getting as bad as Alan Lewis when it comes to model
> differences - can't make 20 in a row the same way. Hopefully they won't
> break anything that's working along the way.

Apparently, they are making changes (improvements I hope) from batch to
batch. They do not change the model number. There is and has always been
one model number. The I, II, etc. have been used by resellers like
3dstereo.com.

George Themelis

Subject: Re: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-28 00:20:43
From: John Thurston

DrT (George Themelis) wrote:

> I saw one of the last cameras (shipped to
> me in May) and it looks different than the
> pictures I have in my web site. Quite
> obvious is the viewing part... instead of
> viewing straight on, the viewfinder is
> pointing down by maybe 45 degrees...

A 45 degree prism would be a nice item.
I keep looking for an old Hasselblad NC2
but haven't scored one from flea-bay yet.
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

Subject: Re: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-28 09:04:46
From: David W. Kesner

Dr. T. writes:

> I saw one of the last cameras (shipped to me in May) and it looks
> different than the pictures I have in my web site. Quite obvious is the
> viewing part... instead of viewing straight on, the viewfinder is pointing
> down by maybe 45 degrees...

So I assume this new viewfinder would be available to purchase
separately? Also what is the status on the new mounting jig you teased us
with some time ago? I sure would be interested in acquiring one of those.

The 3D World site doesn't have any of these new improvements shown.

Thanks,

David W. Kesner

Subject: Re: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-28 09:09:45
From: Michael K. Davis

Ooops!

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "Michael K. Davis" wrote:
>
>
> Bill,
>
> 3DWorld is getting as bad as Alan Lewis when it comes to model
> differences - can't make 20 in a row the same way. Hopefully they
> won't break anything that's working along the way.
>
> Mike

That wasn't meant for the list. Ugggh!

No matter what I say at this point, it's going to lack credibility
because it will sound like damage control, but I'm compelled to
elaborate on this just the same.

Search any post I've made to MF3D and you'll find nothing but praise
for Alan Lewis's SaturnSlide viewer. I'm confident that Alan knows
just how much I admire his contributions to the 3D community. My
intended recipient, Bill, understands this, too, and shares my
sentiments. Discussions we've had in our private correspondence
regarding viewers like the 3DWorld STL always come back to the
conclusion that nobody has ever produced an MF3D viewer that "got it
right" like Alan Lewis's SaturnSlide.

Please understand that in the post above I was contrasting the
expectations one normally has for a commercially produced camera
against what can be expected from a "cottage industry" product like
the SaturnSlide viewer. The fact that Alan's viewer is constructed
primarily of wood facilitated his making changes to the product. The
TL-120's materials are far less malleable, yet it's evolving just as rapidly.

In short, I am amazed at how much the TL-120 varies from one "batch"
to the next. In the case of the SaturnSlide, such variability could
be expected. In both cases, the trickle of enhancements is welcome,
but I've never heard of ordering a camera that's like buying a "grab
bag" - where you really don't know what you're getting until you open the box.

The TL-120 is turning out to be much more of a "cottage industry"
effort than I had originally assumed. In the long run, though, we
should be thrilled to suffer a few surprises along the way,
especially in light of what we're getting for the money - it's a great value.

There, I feel much better! :-)

Mike Davis

Subject: Re: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-28 21:53:31
From: Dr. Kevin Pernicano

Oh, yes and the viewfinder on my model IS a 45 degree or so.

I have a hassy waist level that I use anyway, it just feels more right to me than a prism viewfinder, and I use a Weston IV hand held meter, so I don't rely on the onboard meter.

I will be out of town over the next week, but when I return, I will digitize some images of the wind mechanism and send them on as low res jpgs so the group can see the wind. I was very pleasantly surprised!

No idea if the problem with the slipping wind is present, which would require me to make a little styrene "C" to put under the takeup reel as illustrated in a previous post.

By the way, I will let the group know if airport xrays really do fog EI 400 film!'

Shoot more stereo!

-kp

Dr. Kevin Pernicano
Louisville, KY, USA (Home of the Kentucky Derby)

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Subject: Re: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-29 05:26:06
From: David W. Kesner

Dr. Kevin Pernicano writes:

> I will be out of town over the next week, but when I return, I will
> digitize some images of the wind mechanism and send them on as low res
> jpgs so the group can see the wind.

Would you be so kind as to include images of the new viewfinder as well?

What about the mounting jig, is it the new one also?

Thanks,

David W. Kesner

Subject: Re: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-29 22:39:20
From: Harry Calderbank

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "David W. Kesner" wrote:

>
> Dr. Kevin Pernicano writes:
>
> > I will be out of town over the next week, but when I return, I will
> > digitize some images of the wind mechanism and send them on as low

res

> > jpgs so the group can see the wind.
>
> Would you be so kind as to include images of the new viewfinder as

well?

> Thanks,
>
> David W. Kesner
>

I have just heard from 3D World that the new viewfinder has a
different mount on to the camera and is not interchangable with the
old model! I wonder how different it is and if it could still fit
with a little modification.

regards,

Harry.

Subject: Re: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-29 23:51:50
From: Don Lopp

Michael K. Davis, recently, wrote:

> 3DWorld is getting as bad as Alan Lewis when it
> comes to model differences - can't make 20 in a row
> the same way.

I have not seen any production numbers concerning the
TL 120 camera, and have NO idea as to how many changes
have made during their first year of production.

As best I can tell, the changes have been positive
changes, which was NOT the case with most of the
previous stereo cameras made during the first 60
years of the last century.

> Discussions we've had in our private correspondence
> regarding viewers like the 3DWorld STL always come
> back to the conclusion that nobody has ever produced
> an MF3D viewer that "got it right" like Alan Lewis's
> SaturnSlide.

Actually, I consider my, slightly altered, 3D World MF
viewer to be a superior MF viewer, mostly, because of
its quality optics, plus the price is reasonable.

> The fact that Alan's viewer is constructed
> primarily of wood facilitated his making
> changes the product.

True, but what changes were made ? Was it ever
sold with a rack and pinion focus ?

Was it ever equipped with narrower diameter lenses
wish would have been less expensive, and may have
provided less distortion, than the 46mm Saturn lenses ?

The 3d World, (plastic), MF viewer contains 32mm diameter
lenses which are offer close to distortion-free viewing.

> The TL-120 is turning out to be much more of a
> "cottage industry" effort than I had originally
> assumed.

I never considered the TL-120 to be, "a commercially
produced camera". As far as I know, it was a labor
of love, which was not expected to make a profit. Just
the sharp lenses should indicate that. Who else sells
quality lenses, at such a modest price ? Can a pair
of matched, Mamiya 7, 80mm lenses be purchased for such
a modest price ?

I agree with the suggestion by Mike D, that, "...we should
be thrilled to suffer a few surprises along the way....it
is a great value". As best I can tell, most of the bumps
have been, positive bumps.

The best,

DON

Subject: Re: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-30 01:00:30
From: John Thurston

Harry Calderbank wrote:

> I have just heard from 3D World that the new viewfinder has a
> different mount on to the camera and is not interchangable with the
> old model! I wonder how different it is and if it could still fit
> with a little modification.

One significant difference I have seen is the
change from a two-contact meter (at the front
of the prism) to a three-contact meter (at
the back).

This change pre-dates any 45 dgree prism.
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

Subject: Re: TL-120 feedback
Date: 2007-05-30 07:41:50
From: Christoph Jachner

I was talking to 3d world two days ago (because of my shutter problem and the new viewfinder) and they also told me that the new viewfinder will only fit on their new TL120 model!

... and they also told me that they have stoped shipping for about two months, because they have some problems with their cameras.

Regards, Chris

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