Hello everyone,
I'm new to the group and and do not yet have a stereo MF camera. I have a realist, and am
happy with it, but feel like I need to take the step up to MF. There don't seem to be many
options; the sputnik is too limited and toyish and the 3D world is too bulky and expensive.
I love DIY projects and think I could get great quality at a good price if I made my own
camera. I'm pretty much in love with Joachim Groeger's camera that I saw in the photo
section of this group. But I doubt I could find the plans to replicate that. Here are the
things that I'd like out of my camera

- small (more sputnik than TL-120)
- high quality lenses
- auto-stop advance
- uses 1 roll of film at a time
- "normal" interaxial distance (~60-65mm)
- costs no more that $600
- in one body (not twinned, separate cameras)

My first thought was to put together two MF SLR's together, but then I realized that is
would be over 10 lbs, plus the lenses are too large to get the interaxial distance down to
65mm.

My next thought was two put together two MF rangefinder cameras, but they seem to be
out of my price range according to ebay.

My third thought was to put together two TLRs such as a Mamiya C330, cutting each in
half and connecting them top to top so it only has the two taking lenses left.

I'd love to pool the collective knowledge of the group to see what my best options are. My
only experience with MF is with a Mamiya C330 and a Holga.

So what do you guys think? Are there any light SLR's or cheap rangefinders? Would it be
possible to combine two C330s? What are my other options?

Thanks and I look forward to corresponding with you guys.
~Ryan Simms

ryanlsimms wrote:

> Hello everyone, I'm new to the group and and do not yet
> have a stereo MF camera. I have a realist, and am happy
> with it, but feel like I need to take the step up to MF.
> There don't seem to be many options; the sputnik is too
> limited and toyish and the 3D world is too bulky and
> expensive.

More than one of the list members has gone down this road,
Ryan. More than one of us sighed with relief when the TL-120
was released. Twinning two old TLRs is a non-trivial
exercise. There are several here who have done this and
there is more than one internet log of their project.

> - snip -
> Here are the things that I'd like out of my camera
>
> - small (more sputnik than TL-120) - high quality lenses
> - auto-stop advance - uses 1 roll of film at a time -
> "normal" interaxial distance (~60-65mm) - costs no more
> that $600 - in one body (not twinned, separate cameras)

Is your time free? If not, you won't be able to build
anything better than a tuned Sputnik for less than $600.
--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "ryanlsimms" wrote:

> I love DIY projects and think I could get great quality at a good

price if I made my own

> camera.

Ryan,

Being one of those poor souls that has gone down many roads in the
quest to MF3D perfection, I would sum it up in two options:

1. Put up a lot of money
2. Put out a lot of time

At has to be either or both. The TL-120 is certainly a fantastic
camera, and well worth the investment in my opinion. Yes, you can make
you own siamesed rig for less $$$, however expect considerable effort
to be successful. I started making MF3D rigs in 1988 using cheap
folders, and ended up a few years back investing $2000+ and two years
work to finally get something that suited my purposes. That didn't
account for the milling and cutting equipment! It wasn't the merging
and machining as much as it was the fine tuning, which can take many
rolls to perfect.

I completely understand not wanting to fork out $1200 just to get your
feet wet. If you have the time, I suggest trying to merge some basic
folders like Isolettes or Nettars, or go the TLR option with Yashica
"D"s or similar. Mamiyas or Hasselblads are a lot more complex and
required considerable effort to merge into a single camera.

I've been asked to revive my old project pages I had online from 1996
to around 2002. If you need a few ideas let me know and I can at least
send you some pictures of my old projects.

Sam Smith

> --- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "ryanlsimms" wrote:
>
> I love DIY projects and think I could get great quality at a good
> price if I made my own camera.
>

Ryan,

I have not done much in this area, but did manage a
low-tech join of a couple of Ricoh TLRs--side-by-side; two
rolls of film, one winder; linked focusing, but separate
shutters (didn't get that far). If you are interested,
I have lots of Ricoh and Yashica TLR cameras and parts I
could sell to you cheap. These cameras can produce very
nice images and are fun to play with.

Bob Clark

Thanks for the input everyone. As Sam noted, I really do enjoy projects like this so in a
sense yes, my time is free. I understand that this will take an incredible amount of time,
but I'm definitely up for it. Let's call it a hobby.

Sam, your suggestion of using two Yashica D's is great! The only reason that I had
mentioned the Mamiyas is that a C330 is the only MF camera I've used, so I'm familiar with
it and I have one here that I can check out (but not hack for this project). The Yashicas are
much simpler to work with and cheaper to boot! I'd love to see some of the projects that
you've done which may be similar. I keep finding dead links to your 3D hacker page.

Bob, yes, I'd definitely be interested in buying a couple of Yashicas from you! And I'd love
to check out your twin setup as well.

I've done some research on the Yashica D, including finding a repair manual online, and I
have a basic plan::
• Basically cut each of the cameras in half between the two lenses about 32mm from the
center of the taking lens
• I'll then join the cut edges of the bottom halves of each camera together to give me an
interaxial distance of 64mm or so
• both the shutter speed and the aperture are connected to their respective adjustment
knobs via gears, so I'll use an intermediary gear between the two taking lenses to keep
them in sync (similar to the sputnik)
• I'll move the film advance mechanism to the side where the take up spool will be
(remember, I'm now working with two bottom halves).
• I'm not super clear about focusing, but I think I'll couple the two lens mounting plates
together (harder than it sounds I know) and possibly add a gear to each of the focusing
cam shafts (assuming I'm able to keep the focusing shafts from both cameras) to keep
them in sync
• I haven't figured out the shutter sync yet. But I'm sure it's possible. I'd like to go beyond
using a double cable release cable and have them coupled within the camera body.
• for focusing I'll either use a rangefinder, or ideally add a third lens for viewing (similar to
the sputnik) unless it adds too much bulk.

Here's my questions so far:
• I think the Yashica D is the way to go, especially for its simpler film advance, but from
what I read, the 124s have a better 4-element Yashinon lenses. These lenses where also
found in the last run of the D's but I think D's with the Yashinon lenses are not easy to
find. Is it worth trying to get the 4-element lenses?
• What would be the best plan of attack for matching lenses? Bob, If I'm buying from you,
do you have enough that you could match a pair before you sent them to me? I'm not too
familiar with the process.
• how far into the body of the camera could I push the viewing lens before it gets in the
way of the taking lenses?

I'm sure the members of this group know of a better way to do this, I really look forward to
hearing everyone's suggestions!

~Ryan Simms

I have always been intrigued with the Fuji GA645zi camera
(discontinued). It was originally sold for around $1400, and has been
available on ebay for around $500. It was often the back up for
professional photographers(weddings, etc.) and are often found with very
little use, again because of their back up function and that they were
produced as professional photographers were making the switch to
digital. It is about the size and weight of an SLR with great lenses
that zoom in defined increments from 55mm to 90mm. And with auto
exposure, auto focus, program, Aperture ae, and manual modes with good
dedicated on board and external flashes, I thought they could make a
great dual rig. I picked one up cheap a while back, but have never
followed through with them.

The problems include the following:

1. 645 format. In landscape format, the lens spacing would be
around 90mm. In portrait, about 160mm. Even though I would probably
only want landscape, the rise in 3D world viewing systems( viewers and
only square aspect mounts) limits the utility to cardboard mounts. It
would be nice if 3D world came out with a landscape mount. I can't
imagine the tooling would be much.

2. Manual shutter release. There is a socket on the camera
body for a cable release, but you cannot do a half press pre-exposure
exposure/focus lock with the cable, so syncing action could be a problem.

The size of a twin rig would be a bit smaller and lighter than the
TL120 with many more photos per roll (one roll 120 or 220 per camera).

Anyhow, it was a thought to twin these, now passed. For a light
addition to my 35mm stereo or digital rigs, I might still carry it for
cha chas.

Dale Yingst

Here are my versions of what you are thinking of doing:

>>Sam, your suggestion of using two Yashica D's is great!<<

My first MF camera project was joining two Yashica A's (essentially the same
camera as the D but with different lenses). It produced great images and
was easy to use and very well synch'd with one electronic flash. Difficult
to load film though. See it at:
http://www.seriousviewers.com/projects/cameras1/cameras1.htm

>>I had mentioned the Mamiyas is that a C330 is the only MF camera I've
>>used, so I'm familiar with it<<

I moved on to converting a Sputnik to use Mamiya C330 lenses. It worked
very well too, great images and easier and lighter to use. I wouldn't
recommend repeating this project due to dimensional problems with lenses vs
camera body. See it at:
http://www.seriousviewers.com/projects/mfcam2/mfcam.htm

Then I tried to design and make my own camera body and use the same C330
lenses. I have the body together but never finished the project. It should
work well too I feel. I was just approaching the project with a blank sheet
regarding the camera body. See it at:
http://www.seriousviewers.com/mfcam1/mfcam.html

Maybe these projects will fill in some missing blanks in your design.

Alan Lewis
3-d@sbcglobal.net
Serious Viewers for Serious Viewers
http://www.seriousviewers.com

Alan Lewis wrote:

>
> Then I tried to design and make my own camera body and use the

same C330

> lenses. I have the body together but never finished the

project. It should

> work well too I feel. I was just approaching the project with

a blank sheet

> regarding the camera body. See it at:
> http://www.seriousviewers.com/mfcam1/mfcam.html
>

And I was wishing Alan would be coming out with a MF camera kit
we could put together ourselves.

Chuck

OK, so Bob Clark has graciously sold me a variety of Yashicas (D, Mat, LM) for the project. I
should have plenty to make at least one stereo camera.

Sam, I'd love to check out your old projects. Your "Stereo Pro" seem especially relevant. I
may need help figuring out the shutter linking thing. I know that on past project you've
used the timing from one to control both shutters. Do you have any webpages of pictures
that you could send my way or post?

Does anyone have a link or advice about how to match lenses? I've read of someone mixing
elements from different lenses to get a more precise match. Is this more trouble than it's
worth? I'll have 3 Yashinon lenses to work with.

~Ryan