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Subject: B&W slides
Date: 2008-07-27 13:04:06
From: David Lee
I'm glad to hear that there are other people shooting black and white slides. I have been shooting them for the past couple years and have learned a few things in the process. I have been using the dr5 process and 2 weeks ago had the occasion to stop in Denver and visit David Wood (the owner and operator of dr5). He is a great guy and very dedicated to his work. He showed me his custom built processor (made in Italy at a cost of $100,000). He charges a little more to develop a roll than labs charge for color, but after seeing his operation I can appreciate all the better what he is doing. I encourage anyone wanting black and white slides to use his service. It would be impossible for another person to do as good a job as he is because he has dedicated so much time and energy to getting the best result possible.

Here are some of my thoughts on the various films I have used in this process.
Ilford PanF. I prefer to shoot most landscapes in open shade and have not found any film which gives as beautiful a transparency as this. It has a very high D-Max (dense blacks) which give it a very brilliant look in the right situations. However, it has one very big problem. If there are areas of diffused highlights you get a mottling effect which essentially ruins the image. I've had several otherwise excellent images ruined by this problem. This has happened with long exposures of  waterfalls and with light skies. In images where there is fine detail throughout I have not found a better film.
Ilford FP4. I have started using this film for those situations in which I would have used PanF but for the diffused highlights mentioned in the previous paragraph. I haven't used it that much yet, but so far it seems to be a very good all around film. The D-Max is not quite as dense as PanF.
Ilford Delta 100. I started using this film after reading Mike Davis' recommendation of it. It works well in dr5, but in the light that I like (open shade) I am not getting enough contrast and the D-Max does not seem as great. I may get more of what I want by experimenting with raising the Exposure Index and having David Wood give it more development (he will develop film at a range of developments, depending on what you want). For contrasty scenes I have no doubt that it works great as Mike says.
Kodak TMax100. Works pretty well, but I didn't think the D-Max was a good as PanF or FP4. (It worked well enough that I sold a slide I had made with it for $1000.)
Ilford HP5. I've been using this film for making candid shots of people in bright sunlight (I'SO 400). It works just great for this purpose. A good D-Max and more detail in the shadows than with Fuji Provia 400. I've shot a few rolls in open shade at an EI of 800 and it works just great like this as well.
Adox ORT25. This is an intriguing film available from Freestyle. It is orthochromatic (not sensitive to red light). At normal exposure (ISO 25) and development it is very contrasty and I may end up using this film in open shade where there is detail throughout. Only shot a couple rolls so far.

David Lee

----- Original Message ----
From: Aaron Muderick
To: MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:39:24 PM
Subject: [MF3D-group] anyone else shooting B&W slides

I've been refining my B&W reversal techniques over the past few months.  I'm curious to know if any of the other MF3D folks shoot B&W at all.  If so, what is your favorite film?  Subject matter?  Where have you found that it works well and where does it not work at all?  ;-)

Best,
Aaron

Subject: Re: B&W slides
Date: 2008-07-27 15:47:25
From: Aaron Muderick
David,

This is very interesting.  I was a bit put off of dr5, based solely on the pricing.  I believe his pricing is very fair, just beyond my willingness to spend.  I've only heard excellent things about his consistency and quality. 

The price factor encouraged me to delve into my own process for B&W reversal at home.  The technique still needs work but I am getting close to 'perfection'.  Of course, I've never seen a dr5 slide in person so I'm a little curious as to what perfection can be.  One day soon I'll need to shoot a test roll and send it to him.

I've been testing with Efke 100 (EI 100), Tmax 100 (EI 160) and the new Tmax 400 (EI 320).  I like them all.  Efke has a particular look I find very appealing though it is less forgiving in exposure and development.

I've also done some experimenting with toning...from subtle warm tone, chocolate tones, to complete sepia development.  Of course with slides this can also be done to some extent using the color temperature of the backlighting.

Wow!  You sold a slide for $1000.  Was it a commission?  I didn't realize there was any commercial art market for stereophotography.

I figure I've got another 12 months of experimentation ahead of me before I really feel comfortable in my B&W slide skin.

Best,
Aaron

David Lee wrote:
I'm glad to hear that there are other people shooting black and white slides. I have been shooting them for the past couple years and have learned a few things in the process. I have been using the dr5 process and 2 weeks ago had the occasion to stop in Denver and visit David Wood (the owner and operator of dr5). He is a great guy and very dedicated to his work. He showed me his custom built processor (made in Italy at a cost of $100,000). He charges a little more to develop a roll than labs charge for color, but after seeing his operation I can appreciate all the better what he is doing. I encourage anyone wanting black and white slides to use his service. It would be impossible for another person to do as good a job as he is because he has dedicated so much time and energy to getting the best result possible.

Here are some of my thoughts on the various films I have used in this process.
Ilford PanF. I prefer to shoot most landscapes in open shade and have not found any film which gives as beautiful a transparency as this. It has a very high D-Max (dense blacks) which give it a very brilliant look in the right situations. However, it has one very big problem. If there are areas of diffused highlights you get a mottling effect which essentially ruins the image. I've had several otherwise excellent images ruined by this problem. This has happened with long exposures of  waterfalls and with light skies. In images where there is fine detail throughout I have not found a better film.
Ilford FP4. I have started using this film for those situations in which I would have used PanF but for the diffused highlights mentioned in the previous paragraph. I haven't used it that much yet, but so far it seems to be a very good all around film. The D-Max is not quite as dense as PanF.
Ilford Delta 100. I started using this film after reading Mike Davis' recommendation of it. It works well in dr5, but in the light that I like (open shade) I am not getting enough contrast and the D-Max does not seem as great. I may get more of what I want by experimenting with raising the Exposure Index and having David Wood give it more development (he will develop film at a range of developments, depending on what you want). For contrasty scenes I have no doubt that it works great as Mike says.
Kodak TMax100. Works pretty well, but I didn't think the D-Max was a good as PanF or FP4. (It worked well enough that I sold a slide I had made with it for $1000.)
Ilford HP5. I've been using this film for making candid shots of people in bright sunlight (I'SO 400). It works just great for this purpose. A good D-Max and more detail in the shadows than with Fuji Provia 400. I've shot a few rolls in open shade at an EI of 800 and it works just great like this as well.
Adox ORT25. This is an intriguing film available from Freestyle. It is orthochromatic (not sensitive to red light). At normal exposure (ISO 25) and development it is very contrasty and I may end up using this film in open shade where there is detail throughout. Only shot a couple rolls so far.

David Lee

----- Original Message ----
From: Aaron Muderick
To: MF3D-group@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:39:24 PM
Subject: [MF3D-group] anyone else shooting B&W slides

I've been refining my B&W reversal techniques over the past few months.  I'm curious to know if any of the other MF3D folks shoot B&W at all.  If so, what is your favorite film?  Subject matter?  Where have you found that it works well and where does it not work at all?  ;-)

Best,
Aaron

Subject: Re: B&W slides
Date: 2008-07-27 16:02:52
From: Michael K. Davis
David,

At 02:04 PM 7/27/2008, you wrote:
>However, it [Ilford PanF in the dr5 prrocess] has one very big
>problem. If there are areas of diffused highlights you get a
>mottling effect which essentially ruins the image. I've had several
>otherwise excellent images ruined by this problem.

Yes, I've seen this with PanF, too. It almost looks "solarized" in
the highlight areas only - similar to the cheesy darkroom special
effect had by flashing a print with white light while it's still in
the developer, but here, only the highlights have that
partially-reversed look.

My greatest angst with this problem with PanF and dr5 was when
looking at the results of shooting the interior of a nearly collapsed
old school house near the Red River (Texas-Oklahoma border). The
whole building is leaning in two directions - every wall is a
trapezoid. The floor is mostly intact, with beautifully aged wood
everywhere in the frame. Sunlight was streaming through holes in the
roof, but everywhere that light dappled the floor, the PanF in dr5
came back with the mottling you describe - almost a metallic sheen
where even pure white would have been preferable. I keep telling
myself to make the two-hour drive to the northwest of where I live
and shoot it with Delta-100 (or with PanF on an overcast day) but I
haven't done so.

I envy your having visited with David Wood and toured his lab. In
phone conversations, he has always struck me as being a true
craftsman. His pricing is really low when you consider he's just
about the ONLY service available for B&W chromes other than the
handful of Agfa Scala labs out there.

Mike Davis