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Subject: Question TL-120
Date: 2009-12-17 09:20:23
From: DrT (George Themelis)
Question: When there are no batteries in the TL-120 camera, it fires at
what seems to be a constant shutter speed. Does anyone know what this speed
is?

Thank you,

George
Subject: Re: Question TL-120
Date: 2009-12-17 10:40:54
From: David Kesner
Hello George,

I was under the impression it was the fastest (1/500th). But since you
have a shutter speed tester, why don't you just test it and verify
that *{;-)

David W. Kesner
Boise, Idaho USA

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:06 AM, DrT (George Themelis) <drt-3d@att.net> wrote:
> Question:  When there are no batteries in the TL-120 camera, it fires at
> what seems to be a constant shutter speed.  Does anyone know what this speed
> is?
>
> Thank you,
>
> George
Subject: Re: Question TL-120
Date: 2009-12-17 11:47:30
From: Bob Venezia
I also assumed it was either 1/500 or 1/250. I know that some shots, where that problem stung me, came out about 5 stops underexposed. But I can't recall what shutter speed I was going for.

Perhaps you can solve this riddle for us, George?

Bob Venezia
Seattle, Washington USA

On Dec 17, 2009, at 9:08 AM, David Kesner wrote:

Hello George,

I was under the impression it was the fastest (1/500th). But since you
have a shutter speed tester, why don't you just test it and verify
that *{;-)

David W. Kesner
Boise, Idaho USA

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 8:06 AM, DrT (George Themelis) <drt-3d@att.net> wrote:
> Question:  When there are no batteries in the TL-120 camera, it fires at
> what seems to be a constant shutter speed.  Does anyone know what this speed
> is?

Subject: Re: Question TL-120
Date: 2009-12-17 12:25:17
From: John Thurston
DrT (George Themelis) wrote:
> Question: When there are no batteries in the TL-120 camera, it fires at
> what seems to be a constant shutter speed. Does anyone know what this speed
> is?

It sounds like 1/60 to me. But I don't own a shutter tester
and I haven't felt like burning a frame at a known exposure
to find out. If you knew anyone with a shutter tester it
would be pretty easy to measure ;)
--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us
Subject: Re: Question TL-120
Date: 2009-12-17 16:53:06
From: Aaron Muderick
Record the sound of the click on your computer.  A free program Like audacity will let you see the length of the click.

On Dec 17, 2009, at 12:44 PM, John Thurston <juneau3d@thurstons.us> wrote:

 

DrT (George Themelis) wrote:
> Question: When there are no batteries in the TL-120 camera, it fires at
> what seems to be a constant shutter speed. Does anyone know what this speed
> is?

It sounds like 1/60 to me. But I don't own a shutter tester
and I haven't felt like burning a frame at a known exposure
to find out. If you knew anyone with a shutter tester it
would be pretty easy to measure ;)
--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo. thurstons. us

Subject: Re: Question TL-120
Date: 2009-12-17 17:00:21
From: John Thurston
Aaron Muderick wrote:
> Record the sound of the click on your computer. A free program Like
> audacity will let you see the length of the click.

It will show you the length of the noise, but that doesn't
tell you how long the focal-plane shutter is open.

If you record the sound of the shutter without a batter and
compare it to recordings of the various shutter speeds with
the batter installed, I think we could find a match. I
don't think a recording of the shutter click, by itself,
will tell us the answer.
--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us
Subject: Re: Question TL-120
Date: 2009-12-17 17:15:03
From: Harry Calderbank
I remember reading a long while back when the camera was just released that the shutter speed without batteries is 1/30th.  I might just test this with my next shoot and take the batteries out for the last shot on the roll and compare it with a digital shot at the same aperture. (I'm sure I can spare a shot since I was recently given an out of date box of film which is still perfect).   My cameras are a good match in this regard as my digital SLR is mostly a light meter when I'm shooting with the TL120 and I never need to bracket anymore.  The other way to find out of course is to ask 3D World. 
 
regards,
 
Harry Calderbank

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:00 AM, John Thurston <juneau3d@thurstons.us> wrote:
 

Aaron Muderick wrote:
> Record the sound of the click on your computer. A free program Like
> audacity will let you see the length of the click.

It will show you the length of the noise, but that doesn't
tell you how long the focal-plane shutter is open.

If you record the sound of the shutter without a batter and
compare it to recordings of the various shutter speeds with
the batter installed, I think we could find a match. I
don't think a recording of the shutter click, by itself,
will tell us the answer.

--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us


Subject: SLR as light meter [was: Question TL-120]
Date: 2009-12-17 17:19:43
From: John Thurston
Harry Calderbank wrote:
> ... My cameras are a good match in this regard as my digital
> SLR is mostly a light meter when I'm shooting with the TL120 and I never
> need to bracket anymore.

Harry,
What DSLR and what film are you using?
I've often thought about using my digital as a modern
polaroid to pre-view the image, but how well does the sensor
mirror the film in terms of dynamic range and color sensitivity?

--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us
Subject: Re: SLR as light meter [was: Question TL-120]
Date: 2009-12-17 18:25:47
From: Harry Calderbank
Hi John,
 
Camera is a Pentax K200D but film is a wide variety.  The exposure levels seem consistent accross the film types but naturally the colours can be quite different.  I am using up an old box of Kodak E200 which is quite dull in its colour rendition, with reds looking dim and blue skies always looking quite washed out.  I think I might try and use the rest of it up pushed out to 800 which I have never tried before. The Pentax seems a good match in all respects to Velvia 100.  I'm also using up a box of Kodak VS100 which is more vivid than the Pentax display.  I have gotten to like the Velvia 100 but you still can't beat the Provia for fine grain and dynamic range.  It is brilliant in shadow detail.
 
I haven't had any failures as far as exposure is concerned since using the DSLR to preview.  You just have to be careful in bright light when trying to view your screen on the camera and make allowances.
 
By the way, the light meter on my TL120 is hopelessly inaccurate.  It underexposes by several stops so I just don't bother with it.
 
Best I can say John is to try a roll of film using your digital camera and take notes, then go from there.  There are so many adjustments on cameras these days for display brightness and the like so every camera will be a little different.  Even auto white balance will throw the colours out so I leave the DSLR almost permanently on daylight white balance.
 
Hope that helps a little.  By the way, on another subject, I did mention a long while ago that I was going to experiment with long exposures and the effect on battery life.  Still working on that one.  Just waiting for the right subject - location - weather and moonlight combination to all come together. 
 
regards,
 
Harry

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:19 AM, John Thurston <juneau3d@thurstons.us> wrote:
Harry Calderbank wrote:
> ...   My cameras are a good match in this regard as my digital
> SLR is mostly a light meter when I'm shooting with the TL120 and I never
> need to bracket anymore.

Harry,
What DSLR and what film are you using?
I've often thought about using my digital as a modern
polaroid to pre-view the image, but how well does the sensor
mirror the film in terms of dynamic range and color sensitivity?

--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us


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Subject: Re: Question TL-120
Date: 2009-12-17 19:31:34
From: Aaron Muderick
John,  I agree with your assessment.  This technique is more useful for slow speeds than fast ones.

On Dec 17, 2009, at 6:00 PM, John Thurston <juneau3d@thurstons.us> wrote:

 

Aaron Muderick wrote:
> Record the sound of the click on your computer. A free program Like
> audacity will let you see the length of the click.

It will show you the length of the noise, but that doesn't
tell you how long the focal-plane shutter is open.

If you record the sound of the shutter without a batter and
compare it to recordings of the various shutter speeds with
the batter installed, I think we could find a match. I
don't think a recording of the shutter click, by itself,
will tell us the answer.
--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo. thurstons. us

Subject: Answer - Question TL-120
Date: 2009-12-17 20:57:31
From: DrT (George Themelis)
Hi Guys,
 
The reason I cannot measure the shutter speed without batteries is that I don't have a camera here.
 
I got a response from China.  The speed used without batteries is 1/1000, which explains the severe underexposure that some of you experienced.
 
George
Subject: Re: Answer - Question TL-120
Date: 2009-12-18 03:52:30
From: blackiceuk
--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "DrT \(George Themelis\)" wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> The reason I cannot measure the shutter speed without batteries is that I don't have a camera here.
>
> I got a response from China. The speed used without batteries is 1/1000, which explains the severe underexposure that some of you experienced.
>
> George

Ahhhhhhhh..... it all makes sense.

So when batteries start to fail or if I shoot faster than the battery can deliver energy then automatically underexposed. The shutter clicking and the flash going isn't an indicator that the shot was taken.

My rule of thumb now is I'll change batteries ever 10-15 rolls and definitely on any paid shoot. Spare LR44's can always be saved for pen flashlight - which is needed to see the damned counter window.

Maybe every 10 rolls. Batteries are cheap compared to lost shots and film costs.

M