Yes, the film I was so vigorously condemning was Provia 400F. Provia 400X does have noticeably more grain than the 100F, and I'm not sure I'd want to use it if I was shooting 35mm or ViewMaster. It can be a good solution for medium format, where the larger image area makes the grain less significant but the decreased depth of field makes shooting with a smaller aperture more critical. I also prefer 400X's color palette (especially reds) to that of Provia 100F.

Where 400X really made a difference for me was with my Sputnik, where every shot had to be f22 (or even smaller if I could push the lever over). I was finally able to shoot at the fastest shutter speed in daylight.

I find the ideal compromise between small grain and high ISO for MF is Provia 100F pushed one stop.

Jim Harp

So, what you're saying is the grain of 100F pushed one stop is still preferable to the grain found in 400X shot normally?

But, you still prefer the color of 400X compared to 100F?

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "jamesbharp" wrote:
>
> Yes, the film I was so vigorously condemning was Provia 400F. Provia 400X does have noticeably more grain than the 100F, and I'm not sure I'd want to use it if I was shooting 35mm or ViewMaster. It can be a good solution for medium format, where the larger image area makes the grain less significant but the decreased depth of field makes shooting with a smaller aperture more critical. I also prefer 400X's color palette (especially reds) to that of Provia 100F.
>
> Where 400X really made a difference for me was with my Sputnik, where every shot had to be f22 (or even smaller if I could push the lever over). I was finally able to shoot at the fastest shutter speed in daylight.
>
> I find the ideal compromise between small grain and high ISO for MF is Provia 100F pushed one stop.
>
> Jim Harp
>

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "lattie_smart" wrote:

>
> So, what you're saying is the grain of 100F pushed one stop is still preferable to the grain found in 400X shot normally?
>
> But, you still prefer the color of 400X compared to 100F?
>

Yes, that's my point. I use both Provia 400X (particularly for night and flash photography) and 100F pushed one stop (particularly for daylit scenics) , they both have desirable qualities.

Photography is usually a series of trade-offs. If I wanted maximum depth of field, I'd shoot View Master. In order to get acceptable grain I would need something like Kodachrome 25, but then I wouldn't be able to take any fast exposures. For the least grainy images I'd want to use a large format rig with a black and white emulsion, and so on...

If I was too burned out to even care how my shots look I would just grab my Fuji W-1. That's usually the case with me lately.

Jim Harp

But you've tried both in MF as well? Some think the grain difference is not as noticeable in MF, (even when the 100F is not pushed one stop).

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "jamesbharp" wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "lattie_smart" wrote:
> >
> > So, what you're saying is the grain of 100F pushed one stop is still preferable to the grain found in 400X shot normally?
> >
> > But, you still prefer the color of 400X compared to 100F?
> >
>
> Yes, that's my point. I use both Provia 400X (particularly for night and flash photography) and 100F pushed one stop (particularly for daylit scenics) , they both have desirable qualities.
>
> Photography is usually a series of trade-offs. If I wanted maximum depth of field, I'd shoot View Master. In order to get acceptable grain I would need something like Kodachrome 25, but then I wouldn't be able to take any fast exposures. For the least grainy images I'd want to use a large format rig with a black and white emulsion, and so on...
>
> If I was too burned out to even care how my shots look I would just grab my Fuji W-1. That's usually the case with me lately.
>
> Jim Harp
>

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "lattie_smart" wrote:

>
> But you've tried both in MF as well? Some think the grain difference is not as noticeable in MF, (even when the 100F is not pushed one stop).

>

My opinion is that the grain difference is still noticeable, it just isn't as significant given the larger image area MF provides. I don't shoot film in any format other than MF. What's the point of shooting 35mm film these days when a point-and-shoot digital rig will produce better results?

I regularly shoot both Provia 100F pushed one stop and Provia 400X. I get a little less grain with the 100F and a nicer color palette with the 400X. For close-up flash photography 400X's extra stop of ISO sensitivity can be very valuable, and for detailed scenics the finer grain of 100F is welcome.

These are both great emulsions. If you've looked through any MF folio you've seen many images taken with both of them. It's well worth buying a few rolls of each and seeing what you prefer.

Jim Harp

Thanks - this is all good to know!

I guess I was trying to consolidate opinions on how, or if, 100F pushed one stop still has less grain than 400x. Some say that 400x has only a little more grain than 100F shot normally. And, of course, is the difference noticeable under lower MF viewer magnification to begin with? (Pushing any slide film probably also means I will have to process it elsewhere than Wal Mart!) ;-)

For MF quality, I'm resigned to using tripods, slower speeds, and bulb modes to begin with. So, higher DOF will still be accommodated, at the cost of motion freeze and spontaneity.

But for indoor flash shots, the higher iso info will come in handy. I will have to try the different films and pushed modes to judge the acceptable grain (until I get into a folio!) ;-).

As for casual shooting - I'm still one of those 35mm hold-outs. That is until digital can match the pixel-less stereo slide viewer experience (but that's another can o' worms).

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "jamesbharp" wrote:
>
>
> --- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "lattie_smart" wrote:
> >
> > But you've tried both in MF as well? Some think the grain difference is not as noticeable in MF, (even when the 100F is not pushed one stop).
>
> >
> My opinion is that the grain difference is still noticeable, it just isn't as significant given the larger image area MF provides. I don't shoot film in any format other than MF. What's the point of shooting 35mm film these days when a point-and-shoot digital rig will produce better results?
>
> I regularly shoot both Provia 100F pushed one stop and Provia 400X. I get a little less grain with the 100F and a nicer color palette with the 400X. For close-up flash photography 400X's extra stop of ISO sensitivity can be very valuable, and for detailed scenics the finer grain of 100F is welcome.
>
> These are both great emulsions. If you've looked through any MF folio you've seen many images taken with both of them. It's well worth buying a few rolls of each and seeing what you prefer.
>
> Jim Harp
>