Color me out of date, but can anyone suggest a smallish
digital which offers real-time display of histogram and
highlight/shadow clipping warnings?

"What?!", I hear you cry, "This is an MF3D list. Get that
digital talk out'a here!"

But wait, this really is MF3D related. I've had good luck
taking my DSLR along with my TL120 and using it as a digital
polaroid and meter. If there were a compact digital which
offered real-time clipping and histogram information, I
could get that information without having to capture the
image and study it in play-back. It would be quicker, and
lighter than my DSLR.
--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

Hi John

I'm pretty sure that my Canon S90 can do that - I'll have to check out the manual.

(It's something that I need to work out how to do so I can expose properly when I'm saving Raw files...)

Oh, and the S90 works with SDM, so you can have a pretty good stereo rig if you get two! :)

Bob Aldridge

On 05/10/2011 18:43, John Thurston wrote:

 

Color me out of date, but can anyone suggest a smallish
digital which offers real-time display of histogram and
highlight/shadow clipping warnings?

"What?!", I hear you cry, "This is an MF3D list. Get that
digital talk out'a here!"

But wait, this really is MF3D related. I've had good luck
taking my DSLR along with my TL120 and using it as a digital
polaroid and meter. If there were a compact digital which
offered real-time clipping and histogram information, I
could get that information without having to capture the
image and study it in play-back. It would be quicker, and
lighter than my DSLR.
--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

Hello John,

The problem with this line of thinking is that the smaller the sensor
the less dynamic range. That in turns means that you will be clipping
long before it would be a problem with your medium format film. In
fact I would go so far as to say if you took ten different P&S cameras
out and shot the same scene at the same time you would not get more
than one or two with the same exposure information.

This is not to say that you can't get a good enough exposure this way,
I just do not think it will give you the precision you are looking
for.

David W. Kesner
Boise, Idaho, USA
www.dddphotography.com

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:43 AM, John Thurston <juneau3d@thurstons.us> wrote:
> If there were a compact digital which
> offered real-time clipping and histogram information, I
> could get that information without having to capture the
> image and study it in play-back.

stereoscope3d@gmail.com

John Thurston wrote:

>
> Color me out of date, but can anyone suggest a smallish
> digital which offers real-time display of histogram and
> highlight/shadow clipping warnings?

My wife's Panasonic LX3 can do that. I assume that the current
Panazonic LX5 can also do it. My problem with doing this is that, at
least on the LX3, the histogram is kind of small, and it is hard to
see the screen in sunshine. Wiggling the camera around just a little
bit can also make a big difference in the exposure readings.

The old Pentax Optio 750Z had a nice digital light meter mode, and a
3-D (cha-cha) mode.

I think a small handheld meter (I have the Sekonic L-308S) would work
out better.

--
Brian Reynolds | "It's just like flying a spaceship.
reynolds@panix.com | You push some buttons and see
http://www.panix.com/~reynolds/ | what happens." -- Zapp Brannigan
NAR# 54438 |

Brian Reynolds wrote:

> John Thurston wrote:
>> Color me out of date, but can anyone suggest a smallish
>> digital which offers real-time display of histogram and
>> highlight/shadow clipping warnings?
>
> My wife's Panasonic LX3 can do that. I assume that the current
> Panazonic LX5 can also do it. My problem with doing this is that, at
> least on the LX3, the histogram is kind of small, and it is hard to
> see the screen in sunshine. Wiggling the camera around just a little
> bit can also make a big difference in the exposure readings.
>
> The old Pentax Optio 750Z had a nice digital light meter mode, and a
> 3-D (cha-cha) mode.
>
> I think a small handheld meter (I have the Sekonic L-308S) would work
> out better.

I like my L-208 (which I don't think I've ever forgotten to
pack). I was just trying to combine the function of digital
polaroid and meter in one device.

--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

I tried the histogram in place of light meter.... not always effective.... you need to calibrate histogram to the each film.... and even then, its far from perfect, as its a reflective meter, vs. an ambient meter.... the camera doesn't know the color of light entering the lens.  

Where you have equal light where you stand, and the scene, nothing beats a well tuned ambient meter.  However, ambient (and spot meters) are only calibrated for ONE color temperature light...   Gossen and most European photographic manufactures, calibrate their meters to 5600 Deg Kelvin, a "Daylight" setting.   OTOH,  Japanese manufacturers calibrate at 3400 Deg Kelvin, a "Tungsten" setting.    This 2000o Kelvin difference in color temperature causes a major shift in readings... I once had 5 new light meters, tested them at all different color temps ranges, and on avg, the difference between low and high was 1.5 stops, quite a large variance...


When I shoot 8x10 chrome, and fear wasted exposures, I carry a Nikon F6, and load it with the same film I use in the 8x10....the F6 has RGB sensors in its light meter, as well as firmware built in for each type of film for maximizing exposure.   IMO, its the best light meter ever made.... had film not died, I am sure this technology would have made it into light meters... I think the F5 has the exact same light meter technology in it, which sell for low prices used...    Not exactly a small compact solution, but its the best solution I ever found for perfect metering....   bottom line, no perfect light meter solution...

Bill

On 10/5/2011 12:04 PM, Brian Reynolds wrote:

 

John Thurston wrote:
>
> Color me out of date, but can anyone suggest a smallish
> digital which offers real-time display of histogram and
> highlight/shadow clipping warnings?

My wife's Panasonic LX3 can do that. I assume that the current
Panazonic LX5 can also do it. My problem with doing this is that, at
least on the LX3, the histogram is kind of small, and it is hard to
see the screen in sunshine. Wiggling the camera around just a little
bit can also make a big difference in the exposure readings.

The old Pentax Optio 750Z had a nice digital light meter mode, and a
3-D (cha-cha) mode.

I think a small handheld meter (I have the Sekonic L-308S) would work
out better.

--
Brian Reynolds | "It's just like flying a spaceship.
reynolds@panix.com | You push some buttons and see
http://www.panix.com/~reynolds/ | what happens." -- Zapp Brannigan
NAR# 54438 |

My G9 serves this function well. I have 2 for use with SDM. As Bob suggested,
the S90 (or S95) would be good choices. Sticking with one of the better
quality Canon Powershots would leave open the door for twinning via SDM.

Bob Venezia
Seattle, Washington

Quoting John Thurston <juneau3d@thurstons.us>:

> Color me out of date, but can anyone suggest a smallish
> digital which offers real-time display of histogram and
> highlight/shadow clipping warnings?
>
> "What?!", I hear you cry, "This is an MF3D list. Get that
> digital talk out'a here!"
>
> But wait, this really is MF3D related. I've had good luck
> taking my DSLR along with my TL120 and using it as a digital
> polaroid and meter. If there were a compact digital which
> offered real-time clipping and histogram information, I
> could get that information without having to capture the
> image and study it in play-back. It would be quicker, and
> lighter than my DSLR.
> --
> John Thurston
> Juneau Alaska
> http://stereo.thurstons.us
>

On 10/5/2011 11:54 AM, bob@chairboy.com wrote:

> My G9 serves this function well. I have 2 for use with SDM. As Bob suggested,
> the S90 (or S95) would be good choices. Sticking with one of the better
> quality Canon Powershots would leave open the door for twinning via SDM.

Does your G9 give you clipping warning in the viewfinder or
only the histogram?

I realized after writing my original post that I own a 7D.
When I got home I checked and yep... my 7D will give me
real-time histogram on the screen in "live view" mode. It
won't give me live-clipping information, though.
________________________________________
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

On Oct 5, 2011, at 9:23 PM, John Thurston wrote:

> On 10/5/2011 11:54 AM, bob@chairboy.com wrote:
> > My G9 serves this function well. I have 2 for use with SDM. As Bob
> suggested,
> > the S90 (or S95) would be good choices. Sticking with one of the
> better
> > quality Canon Powershots would leave open the door for twinning
> via SDM.
>
> Does your G9 give you clipping warning in the viewfinder or
> only the histogram?
>

I don't know all the functions of the G9. It has an optical viewfinder
with no electronic overlay. Just crosshairs for focus.

The LCD screen can be set to show a live histogram, which would show
you clipping. A half-press of the shutter will give you exposure
assessment (e.g. -2/3). And if you take a shot and review it you will
see blinking in the over/underexposed areas. That's how I use it. The
G9 can be set to show you the review automatically after taking a
shot. And just reviewing the shot after taking it gives me a good idea
of what to expect in my MF shot. I don't use it that way very often
but when I do it is a comfort!

CHDK also has zebra functionality but I haven't gone into it. It may
be that you can set it to show zebra in the live view on the LCD
screen. I don't need that so haven't dived into it.

HTH,
Bob Venezia
Seattle, Washington

Bob Venezia wrote:
- snip -

> I don't know all the functions of the G9. It has an optical viewfinder
> with no electronic overlay. Just crosshairs for focus.
>
> The LCD screen can be set to show a live histogram, which would show
> you clipping. A half-press of the shutter will give you exposure
> assessment (e.g. -2/3). And if you take a shot and review it you will
> see blinking in the over/underexposed areas. That's how I use it.

That is how I use my Canon Rebel XT (as it weighs a lot less
than my 7D!). I was hoping to find a camera which showed
that blinking over/under-exposure in the "viewfinder" mode.

> CHDK also has zebra functionality but I haven't gone into it.

I understand that CHDK is the platform which permits Stereo
Data Maker to run, but what is "zebra"?

--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us

digital camera = the ultimate light meter. ;)

One caveat... most point & shoots don't go below f8, some include an ND filter but it can be clumsy. Also, don't assume the camera works at ISO 100, some only go down to 200, so check that.

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, John Thurston wrote:

"zebra" is what video people call "blinkies"... video cameras use a striped overlay to show blown-out hightlights.

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, John Thurston wrote:
> I understand that CHDK is the platform which permits Stereo
> Data Maker to run, but what is "zebra"?
>
> --
> John Thurston
> Juneau Alaska
> http://stereo.thurstons.us
>

Quoting bob_karambelas <bob_karambelas@yahoo.com>:

> digital camera = the ultimate light meter. ;)

Amen to that!

>
> One caveat... most point & shoots don't go below f8, some include an ND
> filter but it can be clumsy. Also, don't assume the camera works at
> ISO 100, some only go down to 200, so check that.

Good points I neglected to mention. The G9 does have an ISO 100 setting (even
goes to ISO 80) and though the smallest aperture is f8 it has a 3 stop ND
filter. So I can mimic a shot on my TL-120 set at f22 with Provia 100.

Works for me!

Bob