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Subject: 2012 fuji film survey
Date: 2012-04-24 09:50:15
From: borisstarosta
Hi all! I'm shopping film again...

Never shot much Provia, so I'm curious about that one specifically
I've been searching the list for some information on the different offerings from Fuji, and am finding it difficult to get an overview. Maybe I should start a topic?!

I hope some of you can contribute with your experience in shooting these Fuji Films. I note what I've noticed in parentheses.

Astia 100 (love this film for nudes in studio, flash/strobe lights, but it's hard to find presently)
Astia 100F (some new film I've shot recently, dated 7/2013, came out rather green on outdoors subject)

Velvia 50 (love the results of this in some architectural images I've made, subtle colors magnified) (shot a 15 year old roll recently... still beautiful).
Velvia 100
Velvia 100F

Provia 100 (Shot this years ago on some nudes, and the color was too strong, red)
Provia 100F
Provia 400(F?) (I've shot some of this at night, architecture, liked the results)

So if anyone would like to add their comments to the corresponding films, I'd appreciate it. Also, maybe I've not thought of all the Fuji films still available?

(Trying to find some Tungsten balanced slide film... difficult)

Maybe you know a good website online that gives an overview?

Primarily, I'm looking for comments on color balance, saturation, exposure latitude and performance in bright vs. dark shooting situations. Second, maybe you have some comments about sharpness, resolution, grain, pushability, pullability, reciprocity failure, or how the film performs as it gets older.

This looks like a good place to put a chart or spreadsheet... (Hmm, thinking of publishing a google spreadsheet)...

Boris
Subject: Re: 2012 fuji film survey
Date: 2012-04-24 10:29:58
From: JR
On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 8:49 AM, borisstarosta <boris@starosta.com> wrote:
 

Astia 100F (some new film I've shot recently, dated 7/2013, came out rather green on outdoors subject)

Velvia 50 (love the results of this in some architectural images I've made, subtle colors magnified) (shot a 15 year old roll recently... still beautiful).

How was this stored; frozen, refrigerated, or room temperature?


Provia 100 (Shot this years ago on some nudes, and the color was too strong, red)
 


(Trying to find some Tungsten balanced slide film... difficult)

Primarily, I'm looking for comments on color balance, saturation, exposure latitude and performance in bright vs. dark shooting situations. Second, maybe you have some comments about sharpness, resolution, grain, pushability, pullability, reciprocity failure, or how the film performs as it gets older.

Several of your comments referred to the age of a film.   This is a very important aspect of all emulsions, that can affect the appearance of the images very strongly, sometimes even more than the particular type.  

Both speed (sensitivity) and contrast (gamma) are affected, and since each layer ages differently, the color also shifts.  Grain also tends to increase.

When a film emulsion batch is first mixed and coated, it starts aging, most rapidly at first, then gradually tapering off, but in any case it will continue to age until processed.   For this reason, film manufacturers let the film "ripen" for a period of time before making it available for sale to the user.   Since consumer storage and use (considered sporadic) is less predictable, this is usually given a much longer ripening period than professional film, which will be presumed to be stored frozen and used much more quickly.

As far as tungsten and daylight balanced emulsions, the use of filters can rebalance these in either direction.  For example, both 85B (tungsten-to-daylight) and 80A and/or 80C (daylight-to-tungsten) filters were made available as pairs of matched sets for Stereo Realists and other stereo cameras of that era.  Professionals often use these in the form of gel filters (a matte box usually doubles as both a sunshade and a gelatin filter holder).  Although originally only Kodak products (Kodak Wratten Gelatin Filters), both glass and gel filters are now available in other brands as well.  
 
 JR


Subject: Re: 2012 fuji film survey
Date: 2012-04-25 08:41:19
From: bob_karambelas
Film choices? Darn few remaining. Provia is only available as 100F, Provia 100 was the previous version.

Provia is like... nothing. Just very neutral. I find it boring, but it works for any subject. Grain is extremely fine, as you might expect.

I've been alternating between Elite Chrome and Provia in 35mm, and the differences are small. If I look at an image, I can't immediately tell which film it was shot on. EC can be a little warmer in some images, which I tend to prefer.

Fuji 64 Tungsten is still available, but discontinued. If you want some Tungsten film, get it now. I've been tempted to pick some up, but the reality is, I'll probably never use it.

Besides Provia, the only remaining Fuji choices are the three flavors of Velvia; 50, 100, and 100F. I've never used the 100F, but I gather it has a different color balance than the other two, perhaps adjusted for tolerable skin tones.

Noticing too that Fuji just announced a substantial price increase, so I'm stocking up.

Summary of all current Fuji/Kodak films in production:

Provia 100F
Velvia 50
Velvia 100
Velvia 100F
Provia 400X

Discontinued but still available:

Astia 100 (120 only)
Fuji Tungsten 64T (35mm only)
Elite Chrome 35mm
Elite Chrome Extracolor (EBX) 35mm
Ektachrome 100G
Ektachrome 100VS

BTW, I haven't had the issues you did with the 2013 Astia.

BTW, BTW... anybody else notice how much lenses affect the color? I see almost as much difference among the various Realist lenses than among films, my Pentax primes all have difference balance, and of course the RBT S1 has a look of its own, too.


--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "borisstarosta" wrote:
Subject: Re: 2012 fuji film survey
Date: 2012-04-25 10:02:32
From: coronet3d
--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "bob_karambelas" wrote:
>
>
> Discontinued but still available:
>
> Astia 100 (120 only)
> Fuji Tungsten 64T (35mm only)
> Elite Chrome 35mm
> Elite Chrome Extracolor (EBX) 35mm
> Ektachrome 100G
> Ektachrome 100VS
>
Where are you getting the EBX?
Steve
Subject: Re: 2012 fuji film survey
Date: 2012-04-25 10:07:32
From: coronet3d
OK, I found the EBX at Adorama - wasn't there a couple of weeks ago. While we're on the topic of film: which 100 speed E6 film pushes best to 200 since both E200 and K200 have been discontinued?
Thanks,
Steve
Subject: Re: 2012 fuji film survey
Date: 2012-04-25 11:13:41
From: Brian Reynolds
coronet3d wrote:
> OK, I found the EBX at Adorama - wasn't there a couple of weeks ago.
> While we're on the topic of film: which 100 speed E6 film pushes
> best to 200 since both E200 and K200 have been discontinued?

I would have said E100G (which I thought looked better pushed +1 than
E200 was straight), but that's gone now too.

Where are people finding out what films Fujifilm is still making?
Their web sites (<http://fujifilm.com/>, <http://fujifilmusa.com/>)
are conflicting (e.g., the USA site mentions a consumer print fiml the
global sites doesn't list), and there is very little information
available compared to Kodak's and Ilford's sites.

--
Brian Reynolds | "It's just like flying a spaceship.
reynolds@panix.com | You push some buttons and see
http://www.panix.com/~reynolds/ | what happens." -- Zapp Brannigan
NAR# 54438 |
Subject: Re: 2012 fuji film survey
Date: 2012-04-25 12:38:25
From: coronet3d
--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, Brian Reynolds wrote:
> Where are people finding out what films Fujifilm is still making?
> Their web sites (<http://fujifilm.com/>, <http://fujifilmusa.com/>)
> are conflicting (e.g., the USA site mentions a consumer print fiml the
> global sites doesn't list), and there is very little information
> available compared to Kodak's and Ilford's sites.
>
Fuji is much more secretive about what and when they're discontinuing a product. Sony and other Japanese manufacturers operate similarly. Also, Fuji (and Sony) view the Japanese and "World" markets differently. There are a lot of products that remain in the Japanese market which are unobtanium in the West. Fortia is a good example of a film that was never marketed in the West.
Steve
Subject: Re: 2012 fuji film survey
Date: 2012-04-26 05:28:33
From: bob_karambelas
Fuji puts out press releases when they discontinue things. Last fall they announced the discontinuance of Astia 120, 64T Tungsten 35mm, and Sensia 35mm. At the time, they said they'd have stock to ship through March. Some dealers (Freestyle, Adorama) still have some Astia and 64T in stock.

Speaking of press releases... Fuji just announced a "substantial" price increase:

http://www.fujifilm.com/news/n120423.html

I predict price will eventually be what stops me from shooting film; it will become ridiculously expensive before it becomes unavailable.



--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, Brian Reynolds wrote:

> Where are people finding out what films Fujifilm is still making?
> Their web sites (<http://fujifilm.com/>, <http://fujifilmusa.com/>)
> are conflicting (e.g., the USA site mentions a consumer print fiml the
> global sites doesn't list), and there is very little information
> available compared to Kodak's and Ilford's sites.
>
> --
> Brian Reynolds | "It's just like flying a spaceship.
> reynolds@... | You push some buttons and see
> http://www.panix.com/~reynolds/ | what happens." -- Zapp Brannigan
> NAR# 54438 |
>
Subject: Re: 2012 fuji film survey
Date: 2012-04-26 10:16:17
From: borisstarosta
John, thanks for your reply. You probably meant to say that pro films (e.g. ASTIA) are ripened LONGER, and general audience films (e.g. SENSIA) are ripened for less time before going into distribution. Pros like their films to be already ripe when purchased.

So when I shot new ASTIA 120 I expected it to be ripe, not still ripening.

--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, JR wrote:
> Since consumer storage and use (considered sporadic) is less
> predictable, this is usually given a much longer ripening period than
> professional film, which will be presumed to be stored frozen and used much
> more quickly.
>
Subject: Re: 2012 fuji film survey
Date: 2012-04-27 06:49:33
From: coronet3d
--- In MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com, "bob_karambelas" wrote:
>
> Fuji puts out press releases when they discontinue things.
Not always, they've discontinued several C41 products with no notification. Astia in 35mm dried up before anyone knew it was discontinued. In addition, they announced a discontinuation of Velvia 50 and then continued producing it. Finally, it appears that several products Fuji supposedly "discontinued" are still available as gray market imports from Japan. They're not the same as Kodak. Kodak announces a discontinuation, discontinues the product and then never makes it again. Hopefully that attitude will change - I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Steve