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Subject: TL120 battery considerations
Date: 2015-02-15 19:39:28
From: John Thurston
A recurring topic on this list has been the life of batteries
in the TL120 cameras. I've responded to some of these notes
with measurements and suggestions. I've recently done some
more measurements and consolidated my notes. For anyone who
would like to read them, you will find them at:
http://stereo.thurstons.us/content/?page_id=321

For those who would like to skip the gory details, the
summary is:

The button cells used in the TL120 are not a very good match
for its requirements. But since the camera is designed to use
them,
Use SR44 batteries
Do not use LR44 batteries
Keep a set of PR44 batteries in your camera bag as backup

(Getting this page published was a prerequisite to
documenting the external power connector I mentioned
yesterday. Maybe tomorrow I'll get that page finished.)
--
John Thurston
Juneau, Alaska
Subject: Re: TL120 battery considerations
Date: 2015-09-02 16:03:31
From: zenzabronica@ymail.com
why PR44 as a backup?
Subject: Re: TL120 battery considerations
Date: 2015-09-02 16:08:26
From: John Thurston
On 9/2/2015 1:54 PM, kiberbrat@gmail.com [MF3D-group] wrote:
> why PR44?

I am assuming that this is in reference to my note of
February, 2015 wherein I offered the following:
> The button cells used in the TL120 are not a very good match
> for its requirements. But since the camera is designed to use
> them,
> Use SR44 batteries
> Do not use LR44 batteries
> Keep a set of PR44 batteries in your camera bag as backup

I suggest keeping a pair of PR44 cells in your bag because:
A) They have a very long shelf-life
B) Normally come in easy to carry packages
C) Normally come with electrically isolating tabs installed

You could just as easily carry a set of SR44 cells, but
you'll need to wrap them so they don't short, and remember
to refresh them as they age. Certainly the PR44 will also
age, but they age more slowly. I wouldn't consider the short
shelf life and poor power output of the LR44 to be at all
suitable as a backup battery.

On a side-note, it appears that my web page of supporting
documentation is down :( I gotta go look at that.

--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us
Subject: Re: TL120 battery considerations
Date: 2015-09-02 16:19:47
From: John Thurston
On 9/2/2015 2:08 PM, John Thurston juneau3d@thurstons.us
[MF3D-group] wrote:
> On a side-note, it appears that my web page of supporting
> documentation is down:( I gotta go look at that.

It looks like my web site was under script-kiddie attack and
measures put in place to mitigate it caused more problems.
For now, it is back up.

My notes on battery power for the TL120-1 are here:
http://stereo.thurstons.us/content/?page_id=321

Reading through them to refresh my memory, I see why I
recommended the PR44 as a backup . . . . because the SR44 is
just a bad fit for the camera's power consumption.

The TL120-1 should never have been built with its
button-cell power supply. But since it _was_ built wrong,
all we can do is choose the least wrong battery. The LR44 is
wrong, wrong, wrong. The SR44 is wrong, wrong. The PR44 is
just wrong.
--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us
Subject: Re: TL120 battery considerations
Date: 2015-09-02 16:46:15
From: zenzabronica@ymail.com
Thank you very much for your answer!
Subject: Re: TL120 battery considerations
Date: 2015-09-02 17:50:54
From: Timo Puhakka
Part of the problem here is finding the right cell, even when you know what you want. I bought some Duracell D357 cells but they are labeled as SR44/ LR44/SR44/A/1 on the package. I hope they will work for me.

Timo

On 2-Sep-15, at 6:19 PM, John Thurston juneau3d@thurstons.us [MF3D-group] wrote:

 

On 9/2/2015 2:08 PM, John Thurston juneau3d@thurstons.us
[MF3D-group] wrote:
> On a side-note, it appears that my web page of supporting
> documentation is down:( I gotta go look at that.

It looks like my web site was under script-kiddie attack and
measures put in place to mitigate it caused more problems.
For now, it is back up.

My notes on battery power for the TL120-1 are here:
http://stereo.thurstons.us/content/?page_id=321

Reading through them to refresh my memory, I see why I
recommended the PR44 as a backup . . . . because the SR44 is
just a bad fit for the camera's power consumption.

The TL120-1 should never have been built with its
button-cell power supply. But since it _was_ built wrong,
all we can do is choose the least wrong battery. The LR44 is
wrong, wrong, wrong. The SR44 is wrong, wrong. The PR44 is
just wrong.
--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us


Subject: Re: TL120 battery considerations
Date: 2015-09-03 10:19:15
From: John Thurston
On 9/2/2015 3:51 PM, Timo Puhakka tpuhakka@ymail.com
[MF3D-group] wrote:
> Part of the problem here is finding the right cell, even
> when you know what you want. I bought some Duracell D357
> cells but they are labeled as SR44/ LR44/SR44/A/1 on the
> package. I hope they will work for me.

I'm sure they will work. The question is "how long will they
serve?"

I _suspect_ those are silver-oxide as the D357 was the cell
for which I grabbed the datasheet to use as an example in my
study. I also suspect that if the battery is sold as a
"watch battery", it is more likely a silver than alkaline.
If you didn't have to rip the sealing tab off it, then it
isn't a zinc-air battery.
--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us
Subject: Re: TL120 battery considerations
Date: 2015-09-03 12:08:53
From: Timo Puhakka
Can you let us know where you source your cells, since it is likely by
mail order, it would be useful for most of us (at least as useful as
your great research on this topic).

Timo

On 3-Sep-15, at 12:19 PM, John Thurston juneau3d@thurstons.us [MF3D-
group] wrote:

> On 9/2/2015 3:51 PM, Timo Puhakka tpuhakka@ymail.com
> [MF3D-group] wrote:
>> Part of the problem here is finding the right cell, even
>> when you know what you want. I bought some Duracell D357
>> cells but they are labeled as SR44/ LR44/SR44/A/1 on the
>> package. I hope they will work for me.
>
> I'm sure they will work. The question is "how long will they
> serve?"
>
> I _suspect_ those are silver-oxide as the D357 was the cell
> for which I grabbed the datasheet to use as an example in my
> study. I also suspect that if the battery is sold as a
> "watch battery", it is more likely a silver than alkaline.
> If you didn't have to rip the sealing tab off it, then it
> isn't a zinc-air battery.
> --
> John Thurston
> Juneau Alaska
> http://stereo.thurstons.us
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
Subject: Re: TL120 battery considerations
Date: 2015-09-03 12:57:23
From: John Thurston
On 9/3/2015 10:08 AM, Timo Puhakka tpuhakka@ymail.com
[MF3D-group] wrote:
> Can you let us know where you source your cells, since it is likely by
> mail order, it would be useful for most of us (at least as useful as
> your great research on this topic).

Unlike some here, I really don't go through too many cells.
Maybe a set every couple of years? I don't shoot a lot of
long exposures, and always buy silver-oxide.

Most recently (Dec 2014), I purchased a set of three
silver-oxide cells (SR44) through Amazon. Looks like they
are currently going at $4/3-cells.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002DSVOW

An example of specifically what _not_ to buy would be:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IHICPV4
This is an alkaline cell (LR44) and is the *worst match* for
the TL120-1. The notes on the item say it "replaces" all
kinds of different cells. It "replaces" in the sense that it
will physically fit and mobilize some electrons. You won't
be satisfied with the longevity. If the light is calling and
these are the only cells you can get, use 'em. But plan on
replacing them with silver-oxide ASAP.

If you want to use zinc-air cells (PR44), look for hearing
aid cells. They are commonly packaged as "blue" and sold as
"size 675". Last time I was in Costco, I noticed they were
selling a 40-cell card for less than $10.
Amazon item B005MI8UOS is a 12-cell package of these.

--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us
Subject: Re: TL120 battery considerations
Date: 2015-09-03 17:43:25
From: Timo Puhakka
This is what I have been using up until recently when I bought some of the above mentioned Duracell cells
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-SUNBEAM-357-AG13-303-SG13-LR44-SR44-ALKALINE-1-5V-BATTERY-COIN-BUTTON-CELL-/261311837203?hash=item3cd7663413
I can buy one of these packs at the Dollarama for $1.00 CDN. I change them a couple of times a year, even though I shoot fewer than 10 rolls a year.

Found some of the 675 cells
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/6-x-Eunicell-A675-PR44-675-1-4v-Hearing-Aid-Zinc-Air-Button-Cell-Batteries-/131410384223?hash=item1e98ab555f
$7.26 CDN including shipping, for a 6 pack.

Timo

On 3-Sep-15, at 2:57 PM, John Thurston juneau3d@thurstons.us [MF3D-group] wrote:

 

On 9/3/2015 10:08 AM, Timo Puhakka tpuhakka@ymail.com
[MF3D-group] wrote:
> Can you let us know where you source your cells, since it is likely by
> mail order, it would be useful for most of us (at least as useful as
> your great research on this topic).

replacing them with silver-oxide ASAP.

If you want to use zinc-air cells (PR44), look for hearing
aid cells. They are commonly packaged as "blue" and sold as
"size 675". Last time I was in Costco, I noticed they were
selling a 40-cell card for less than $10.
Amazon item B005MI8UOS is a 12-cell package of these.

--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us


Subject: Re: TL120 battery considerations
Date: 2015-09-03 19:15:18
From: Peter Bahouth
Hi folks...
Thanks for the good advice on batteries for the TL120...

Amazon has tons of PR44 (size 675)
I bought 60 of these for $14.40.... 
HearClear Hearing Aid Batteries Size 675 , PR44 (60 Batteries)
60 pcs. size 675 (PR44), HearClear Premium Plus Zinc Air Hearing Aid Batteries. (60 batteries Standard dial pack, 10 cards of 6 cells each). HearClear hearing aid batteries are backed with over 23 years of research and development and have a patented unique technology. 

Also have bought SR44 on Amazon

[ Strip of 8 ] Energizer A76/LR44 (A76BP), SR44, L1154, 1.5v Alkaline Batteries... $5.78


Best,
Peter


On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Timo Puhakka tpuhakka@ymail.com [MF3D-group] <MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

This is what I have been using up until recently when I bought some of the above mentioned Duracell cells
I can buy one of these packs at the Dollarama for $1.00 CDN. I change them a couple of times a year, even though I shoot fewer than 10 rolls a year.

Found some of the 675 cells
$7.26 CDN including shipping, for a 6 pack.

Timo

On 3-Sep-15, at 2:57 PM, John Thurston juneau3d@thurstons.us [MF3D-group] wrote:

 

On 9/3/2015 10:08 AM, Timo Puhakka tpuhakka@ymail.com
[MF3D-group] wrote:
> Can you let us know where you source your cells, since it is likely by
> mail order, it would be useful for most of us (at least as useful as
> your great research on this topic).

replacing them with silver-oxide ASAP.

If you want to use zinc-air cells (PR44), look for hearing
aid cells. They are commonly packaged as "blue" and sold as
"size 675". Last time I was in Costco, I noticed they were
selling a 40-cell card for less than $10.
Amazon item B005MI8UOS is a 12-cell package of these.

--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us





--
Peter Bahouth
(202) 341-3310
Treehouses
Subject: Re: TL120 battery considerations
Date: 2015-09-04 10:48:12
From: John Thurston
On 9/3/2015 5:15 PM, Peter Bahouth pbahouth@gmail.com
[MF3D-group] wrote:
> Hi folks...
> Thanks for the good advice on batteries for the TL120...
. . .
> Also have bought SR44 on Amazon[ Strip of 8 ] Energizer A76/LR44 (A76BP),
> SR44, L1154, 1.5v Alkaline Batteries... $5.78
> . . .[amazon part] B00KATQG1S

I can understand ending up with alkaline cells by accident,
but the listing you referenced specifically states they are
alkaline. I don't understand why y'all keep _choosing_
Alkaline cells.

Three siver-oxide cells for $4 ($1.33 each)
Eight alkaline cells for $6 ($.75 each)

Considering they last no more than half as long as
silver-oxide, alkaline cells aren't any less expensive, and
are a very poor match for your camera's power needs.

If you're up a creek without a paddle, between a rock and
hard place, or need to use your camera and all the drug
store has are some LR44 cells, then grab 'em and start
shooting. But to intentionally choose the worst choice when
better choices are just as easily and cheaply procured
boggles my mind :p

--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us
Subject: Re: TL120 battery considerations
Date: 2015-09-04 11:41:34
From: Peter Bahouth
John is absolutely right and I should not have posted the link to the SR44 alkaline.
My apologies to the group....
I knew there was a reason I don't normally raise my hand in class!
I'm going back to listening and learning...probably the best bet as I continue my mistake-prone love affair with the TL120 and other stereoscopic film cameras...
Peter

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 12:48 PM, John Thurston juneau3d@thurstons.us [MF3D-group] <MF3D-group@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

On 9/3/2015 5:15 PM, Peter Bahouth pbahouth@gmail.com
[MF3D-group] wrote:
> Hi folks...
> Thanks for the good advice on batteries for the TL120...
. . .
> Also have bought SR44 on Amazon[ Strip of 8 ] Energizer A76/LR44 (A76BP),
> SR44, L1154, 1.5v Alkaline Batteries... $5.78
> . . .[amazon part] B00KATQG1S

I can understand ending up with alkaline cells by accident,
but the listing you referenced specifically states they are
alkaline. I don't understand why y'all keep _choosing_
Alkaline cells.

Three siver-oxide cells for $4 ($1.33 each)
Eight alkaline cells for $6 ($.75 each)

Considering they last no more than half as long as
silver-oxide, alkaline cells aren't any less expensive, and
are a very poor match for your camera's power needs.

If you're up a creek without a paddle, between a rock and
hard place, or need to use your camera and all the drug
store has are some LR44 cells, then grab 'em and start
shooting. But to intentionally choose the worst choice when
better choices are just as easily and cheaply procured
boggles my mind :p

--
John Thurston
Juneau Alaska
http://stereo.thurstons.us




--
Peter Bahouth
(202) 341-3310
Treehouses